2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[RedNEO]

You guys are overreacting. Sainz may be happening but not the engine deal. Sainz doesnt have an engine on his back like kobayashi, Sato, etc.
Honda can never be a works engine as well. It's in Japan. That's the killer for any definition of a "works engine" for a european centred racing series.
Ron Denis was just being a bit senile and nostalgic when he decided to go with honda as a works engine. From what we see with ferrari and mercedes and renault. A works team has the best benefit of a works engine when everything is almost under the same roof or in the same country. Or at least the same continent and culture.
Mclaren is being smart. They simply need an engine built in europe.
I wish they went back to mercedes but renault is fine. Reason being i wouldnt with bad on Toro Rosso to use Honda Engines. I just don't think those engines are going fast anywhere soon being built and designed in Japan. The barriers are just to high.
Mclaren are doing the right thing. Use renault now... draw power and influence away from Redbull. If Toro Rosso dare use Honda Engines, Renault will simply close off much of the communication with redbull.
In a few years BMW or porsche will be in the sport and Mclaren can Jump to them. They need not jump back to Honda, should by same amazing once in a billion years miracle happens and honda becomes the best engine in F1.

If the new rules are good McLaren have said that they'd even build there own engine. This move makes even more sense in that respect because staying with Honda at the tail end of the grid for the next two years when that's coming makes no sense.

Renault atleast there's a possibility they could catch Mercedes unlike Honda who are still struggling to build an engine that lasts one practice session. And trust me McLaren tried to get a Mercedes but they were too scared of the might of McLaren just like how they were too scared of Redbull.

[RedNEO]

So it really is happening?

I'm dissapointed in how Mclaren has played this game, been a McL fan since the early 90's, but now they really messed up. When I first heard that Renault announced their comeback as a works team I hoped that Alonso would join them, in hindsight he probably would have been almost as vocal about Renault as he has been with Honda given the struggles they have had. Now he gets to drive a customer-Renault engined car that was built for Honda engines in a team that has lost it's team spirit. Oh boy.

But, with that said, I hope they'll fight for podiums next year, be it with a Honda or Renault engine in the back. Mclaren, FI, Renault and RB could be pretty evenly matched next year if all goes well for everybody.

No team is fighting for podiums next year with a Honda engine. Renault has no incentive to a provide any different service to its works team to McLaren as McLaren stands a better chance at succeeding then it does currently. For Renault it's a win win because now it has two teams who could win with its engine instead of just one.

Mclaren like Redbull will take 100% credit whenever they win anything. There is nothing in it for Renault. Thats why they entered as a manufacturer

Renault saw no problem with it when they were winning with Redbull previously. And by the way McLaren doesn't = Redbull in that sense

[RedNEO]

McLaren had two options..

1) stay with a engine that provides delusions of grandeur

2) go to a engine that that provides performance

Simple choice

[bill shoe]

Yes, it's going thru. McLaren is getting out of the make-excuses nightmare and they are getting back into the put-our-asses-on-the-line mode. Any of us can predict that McLaren will do good or bad, but either way I have huge respect for the fact that they are abandoning an easy $100 million per year to go racing again!!. This makes me a serious McL fan in a way I've never been before. Totally rooting for them.

[bill shoe]

Now we just need Renault to do an Indycar engine... Sad to think that May 2017 was the only time we'll see Alonso shine at Indy in the prime of his career.

[RedNEO]

Now we just need Renault to do an Indycar engine... Sad to think that May 2017 was the only time we'll see Alonso shine at Indy in the prime of his career.

They say every year Alonso is at the prime of his career but he keeps on surprising. The speed never goes, next year he will be back stronger than ever!

[techman]

Its pretty clear mclaren were runing more wing. in constrast redbull had a very skinny rear wing. for a place like monza running more wing will eat you in the straights, No wonder redbull did really well against all renault and even got managed to overtake a ferrari. redbull has the best efficient chassis, and next year mclaren chassis will get exposed by redbull. Cant put all blame on honda and mclaren to run heavy rear wing causing more drag especially in monza. mclaren all want to do is toot their horns and boast how quick they are in corners, they dont realise its how much running more wing will destroy straight line speed.

[BeardedAce]

Its pretty clear mclaren were runing more wing. in constrast redbull had a very skinny rear wing. for a place like monza running more wing will eat you in the straights, No wonder redbull did really well against all renault and even got managed to overtake a ferrari. redbull has the best efficient chassis, and next year mclaren chassis will get exposed by redbull. Cant put all blame on honda and mclaren to run heavy rear wing causing more drag especially in monza. mclaren all want to do is toot their horns and boast how quick they are in corners, they dont realise its how much running more wing will destroy straight line speed.
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312760.jpg
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312587.jpg
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312742.jpg

Gary Anderson said the same thing in SPA, unfortunately he was labeled a "Mclaren Hater" for saying that. Mclaren is doing everything to make Honda look bad to get out of the contract. Part of me wants to see them running a Renault engine next year, so we can see how good their chassis really is, there have been a lot of boasting since 2015 about their hallowed chassis.

[victoriawan]

first post. i can't believe how many Honda apologists on this forum. Mclaren were running as skinny rear wing as other teams, it only looks less skinny because of the illusion that the " mclaren" writing creates. yes it's not as skinny as the red bull's which is probably the most skinniest on the grid but it's definitely not the least skinniest by a mile like some people here are claiming.
comparison with some other teams:
https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/903190436759646210
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/photo/mai ... 6529&i=128
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/photo/mai ... 1266&i=146

[Schuttelberg]

Its pretty clear mclaren were runing more wing. in constrast redbull had a very skinny rear wing. for a place like monza running more wing will eat you in the straights, No wonder redbull did really well against all renault and even got managed to overtake a ferrari. redbull has the best efficient chassis, and next year mclaren chassis will get exposed by redbull. Cant put all blame on honda and mclaren to run heavy rear wing causing more drag especially in monza. mclaren all want to do is toot their horns and boast how quick they are in corners, they dont realise its how much running more wing will destroy straight line speed.
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312760.jpg
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312587.jpg
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312742.jpg

Gary Anderson said the same thing in SPA, unfortunately he was labeled a "Mclaren Hater" for saying that. Mclaren is doing everything to make Honda look bad to get out of the contract. Part of me wants to see them running a Renault engine next year, so we can see how good their chassis really is, there have been a lot of boasting since 2015 about their hallowed chassis.

Let's look at it all objectively- Every time we've been to circuits that are tight and twisty or less power dependent, McLaren has looked the part. They've not been at the sharp end of it, but they've not been miserable. I feel McLaren have every right to believe that they do have one of the best cars. Is the chassis a match for the RBR? If you ask me, I don't think even the Merc/Ferrari have had the chassis that RBR has in the second half on any of these seasons. But was the McLaren on par with the Merc and Ferrari? Impossible to tell. I certainly felt that the 2016 McLaren chassis was as good or better than the Ferrari chassis. The most important thing we never recognise is that it's impossible to judge the McLaren chassis because of the PU in the car. It's never been pushed.

In my opinion, people are under estimating McLaren. I think they can make as good a chassis as RBR in 2018, may be even better. It won't be easy, but that's high level sport. I don't think we should under estimate the factory Renault either. They themselves are capable of making a winner. I for one don't doubt any of the abilities of these 3 teams. They're all multiple championship winners. However, in the current set of regulations so vehemently dominated by power units, my mind says Renault will beat both Red Bull and McLaren. And personally, I don't think RBR or McLaren care where they end up if they can't win the title.

I think more than anything else and anyone else, McLaren are in desperate need of stability. They need a management that thinks long term. I don't think EB or ZB are the answer to those questions and I fear neither is Alonso. This is not a team that's battling for survival. It's one that's struggling to get to the top. It's the only reason that this side step makes me feel so underwhelmed. I can't help but feel ZB is a little out of his depth in F1. This is not American racing where you suddenly put another PU and McLaren will get to the top. F1 has always been building bricks to make a wall. I feel that he's succumbing to the media and a driver that's fueling the fire in the media. McLaren needs a more headstrong leader. Just my opinion.

[iotar__]

Now we just need Renault to do an Indycar engine... Sad to think that May 2017 was the only time we'll see Alonso shine at Indy in the prime of his career.

Alonso's prime was ~6 year ago or earlier. From team's point of view at least he won't be wasting rare chance for points as he did with his Monaco stunt.

Ever professional Sky's claim that "everyone" wins on his deal is a bizarre one:
- assuming engine order status quo it's the opposite: everyone but McL loses
- Renault helps their nearest competitor
- TR gets third engine change in four years and the worst engine
- Honda gets spectacularly ditched

[proteus]

Its pretty clear mclaren were runing more wing. in constrast redbull had a very skinny rear wing. for a place like monza running more wing will eat you in the straights, No wonder redbull did really well against all renault and even got managed to overtake a ferrari. redbull has the best efficient chassis, and next year mclaren chassis will get exposed by redbull. Cant put all blame on honda and mclaren to run heavy rear wing causing more drag especially in monza. mclaren all want to do is toot their horns and boast how quick they are in corners, they dont realise its how much running more wing will destroy straight line speed.
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312760.jpg
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312587.jpg
http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312742.jpg

If Mclaren would want top speeds with Honda engine, they would need to remove the rear wing completely, and still there is no guarantee that would do the job.

[techman]

If Mclaren would want top speeds with Honda engine, they would need to remove the rear wing completely, and still there is no guarantee that would do the job./quote]

next year we will find out the big difference between mclaren and redbull, i will not be suprise to see redbull its over 0.5 of second faster than mclaren.mclaren will have no one to blame except themsleves

[Sayeman]

Whatever happens, FIA's number 1 property will be to retain Honda. Mclaren and Alonso are minnows in the bigger scheme of things, only thing going for them is their rich F1 history, outside F1 pretty non-existent.

Honda would be foolish to accept Torro-Rosso contract unless there is some assurance from Redbull to take their engines in the future. They won't want to invest that amount of money to power a backmarking team without coverage.

Then again 90% of the wound is self-inflicted. Start of the season was terrible, everyone was expecting much more from them.

[Shakeman]

This is a massive backward step for McLaren, it puts them into a direct fight with Red Bull on chassis vs chassis basis but comfortably behind Ferrari and Merc.

The Torro Rosso deal will mean Red Bull has an option to jump ship if/when Honda gets its act together either in this engine format or the next one. McLaren only has Renault from this point forward and have backed themselves into a box. I don't see how McLaren will ever be winners from this position after all they exist to win...

Ron will be proved right eventually but by Red Bull not McLaren.