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Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
loner wrote: ↑14 Sep 2017, 21:45I encourage all the non engineers members who know nothing about the PU and iam the first one to stop posting in this thread starting from the official announcement which was today and the end of this saga.
lets feed our thoughts from the respectable knowledgeable members with satisfied reads in silence.
TEAM REPRESENTATIVES – Masashi YAMAMOTO (Honda), Katsuhide MORIYAMA (Honda), Franz TOST (Toro Rosso)
Q: Moriyama-san, today the new partnership with Toro Rosso and also the separation with McLaren was announced. Can you make a comment from Honda's point of view?
Katsuhide MORIYAMA: Yes, good afternoon gentlemen, my name is Moriyama and I am the operations officer for Honda and today I am here representing Honda. Well, first of all, before we start, I would like to show my deep appreciation to the FIA and to Liberty Media for giving us such a huge support in order to conclude the deal in such a short period of time and in providing us such a special stage to announce our new start. So now regarding McLaren: it is very disappointing that we have to end the partnership without achieving our target, which we had set at the beginning of the project. Also it is a shame, the fact that we were not able to reach our performance target, that affected a lot the relationship. However, it also my pleasure that we can start a new relationship with Toro Rosso, a team with a very youthful energy and a history of nurturing the stars of the future. I think this is the start of a new chapter for Honda F1 and I'm already looking forward to seeing the opening race in Melbourne next year.
Q: Moriyama-san there have been suggestions in the past few months that the Honda board actually discussed pulling out of Formula One, and if so why did the board decide that Honda would remain in the sport?
KM: For Honda, Formula One has started with the dream of our founder Mr Soichiro Honda and we already have a 50-year history in Formula One and for our company obviously Formula One is a very important culture as well as the DNA of our company. It is true that we have gone through a very tough situation now and nobody was satisfied with the current board, especially the board. It is true that we have gone through many discussions due to the dissatisfaction of the present and we discussed the project with the company and how to improve the situation. Quitting F1 was never an option for us. It is out goal to overcome this tough challenge and get back to fighting with the frontrunners of the sport. Our spirit, Honda's spirit, is going to come back and for next year our goal is to fight for the top three at the front of the grid.
Q: Thank you very much. Yamamoto-san, you are the person who is actually dealing with all the negotiations with McLaren and with Franz and Toro Rosso. Tell us how it all happened from your point of view.
Masashi YAMAMOTO: It's true, because we have been struggling with the goals that we had, it's true that from the beginning of the season there had been discussions with McLaren about dissolving our relationship. Honda always wished to continue with McLaren towards a good result. Therefore, it is, for us, a shame and a pity, a disappointment, that we have to separate. But as you know, since the Italian Grand Prix the results haven't been famous and so our thoughts have started to change. So, as you know, in fact from the US Grand Prix last year, we work with Super Formula in Japan and from last year in the US we met with Dr Helmut [Marko] and we have been having conversations regarding the Red Bull [Junior] Pierre Gasly, who races in Super Formula in Japan. So I've had many opportunities to speak with Dr Marko since last year regarding the Super Formula and after the Italy Grand Prix, Dr Marko actually mentioned Toro Rosso. In fact, Mr Franz Tost has lived in Japan and knows Japan well, and as you know Toro Rosso is a very young team and I think we have many things in common and we are very much looking forward to working with Mr Tost.
Q: Yamamoto-san, Honda has obviously had a very difficult in coming back to Formula One, so what makes you confident that you have can success with Toro Rosso?
MY: Although we do not have much time until the start of the next season, I feel that we are going to have a very good season, a good relationship between Honda and Toro Rosso. I believe that Toro Rosso is a pure racing team. The spirit of Toro Rosso is very similar to the spirit of Honda and in the short time we have I believe we can work smoothly and successfully for the next years.
Q: Franz why is this the right move for your team and who is going to make the gearbox?
Franz TOST: First of all, thank you very much to the Honda management, to Moriyama-san and to Yamamoto-san to trust Toro Rosso. We at Toro Rosso are very proud and happy to work together with such an exclusive partner like Honda is and we are convinced that we will have a very successful future. The gearbox will be made by Toro Rosso, like the year before.
Q: OK, what happens this year and next year with drivers? Dany Kvyat, Pierre Gasly we've heard about and also Nobuharu Matsushita. What are your thoughts on the drivers in this situation?
FT: Well currently we have two quite successful and competitive drivers with Daniil Kvyat and Carlos Sainz and I assume that they will finish the season with us and regarding the drivers for next year and then Red Bull will decide who is driving with us and of course we will also take into consideration any request from our partners.
QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR
Q: (Joe Saward – Auto week) A question for Yamamoto-san. What have you learned from your experiences in F1 during the past few years?
MY: Well, I have joined this project last April and I have realised that Formula One is indeed, as it's said, a top-level championship – quite different from the domestic championships that we have. To keep a good relationship and to keep everyone satisfied is very difficult. As a manufacturer I realise that Formula One's technology is very high and for Honda, that joined a year later, it has been a struggle for us to keep up with the new technology.
Q: (Dieter Rencken – Racing Lines) Yamamoto-san it's not secret that Honda haven't managed to make a success of Formula One for the past three years, so why should it be more successful for the next three years? For Mr Tost, why do you believe that Honda can actually make a success of Formula One until the end of 2020?
MY: It's not that I'm more confident for the next three years but it is that when we compare our policies, Mr Tost's and Honda's, Toro Rosso policy and our policies are very similar and so we think we can work in harmony and move forwards for the next three years until the change of the regulations.
FT: Four years ago, it was in October, before the Suzuka Grand Prix, I visited the Honda factory. They have a fantastic infrastructure and I think in the meantime I think they have learned a lot about the new power unit and I am convinced within the next three years, also within the short term, Honda will improve their performance dramatically. They have already come up with real good upgrades during this season – unfortunately, because McLaren is very close to us – and I am 100% convinced that Honda will make big steps forward in the near future and within the next three years and therefore, once more, as I said before, we are more than happy to work together with such a fantastic partner. I am looking forward to next year because I think that Honda and Toro Rosso will have a successful season.
Q: (Graham Harris – Motorsport Monday) A question for Moriyama-san. Now that Honda has committed to come back with Toro Rosso and stay in Formula One for the next three years, what do you think Formula One needs to do to attract more Japanese automakers to come into Formula One as manufacturers?
MY: One important thing at the moment is that in Japan at the moment Formula One is not broadcast on free-to-air TV. So we believe that the most important factor is that at the moment the fans can only watch through satellite/pay TV, so that is maybe the biggest issue to increase the number. Obviously, us as Honda, it would improve our promotional ways of improving our Honda F1.
Q: (Luis Vasconcelos – Formula Press) For Franz: Getting a works engine was always one of your targets for Toro Rosso. Now that's done, do you think that your team has what it takes to fight with the other works teams like Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault?
FT: Toro Rosso is not Ferrari, Mercedes; we have another infrastructure. But I can promise you that we, within our possibilities, will do the best possible job and then the rest we will see. It is not always and only the money which is decisive for the success. I hope at Toro Rosso we will work efficiently, because this is our slogan, and to get the most out of the package and then the rest then we will see. The future will show. If necessary, then of course, maybe we will bring in more people, increase even the infrastructure, whatever is necessary to have the success that Honda wishes, but this is too early a stage to talk about the details of the infrastructure. But I am convinced we are in a position to fight successfully within the midfield or the forward part of the midfield and the rest then we will see. Then future will see.
Q: (Sandor Meszaros - Autosport ES) A question for Franz. Congratulations on the Honda deal, but I wanted to ask you about Sean Gelael, who drove today in one of your cars. We saw him, he performed in a very mature way in the Monza F2 races and he was very calm today. How do you see his performance and how do you see his future?
FT: Sean Gelael was testing with us two times. The first time was in Bahrain after the grand prix. He showed really a very, very good performance there. We were surprised, because I didn't expect that he would be so fast after I saw his Formula 2 race the day before. The second time he tested in Hungary. There he showed a real good performance, especially in sector one. In Sector two he was matching the times of our drivers. And now today he was out in Free Practice 1. He will do another Free Practice 1 and then we have another test in Abu Dhabi and at the end of the test in Abu Dhabi we will sit together and we will discuss further steps for the future. He will do next year Formula 2 as it looks like and then we will see. It depends always on the driver. If he is doing a fantastic job and improving his performance then of course there are always doors open. But first of all he has to perform really well next year in Formula 2 and then we will see. Today he did a fantastic job, we were really happy with him.
Q: (Dieter Rencken – Racing Lines) Yamamoto-san, I believe that McLaren Applied Technologies, a sister company to the Formula One team, supplied a lot of the hybrid componentry. Will that continued going forward despite the split?
MY: For the time being we will continue with that company. Meanwhile, we are already producing most the parts by ourselves, so in the future it will be all produced by Honda.
Q: (Joe Saward – Auto week) Moriyama-san. The President of the Honda company says that you need to take more risks to get back to how Honda used to be. Do you think that is one of the problems you have had in Formula One?
KM: No, we don't think so. We don't think that the problem was not taking enough risk. As Mr Yamamoto said earlier, we had a gap when we returned to the Formula One and closing the gap has been the biggest problem. And so to shorten the gap, Honda has done the best we could. We reached everything, we sped up as much as we could to reach a compatible level. Therefore, I believe we have been able to catch up and shorten the gap quite a lot but we understand there is more to be done.
Q: (Chris Medland – Racer) A question for Franz. You mentioned the driver line-up for the rest of this season, saying you hope to keep Dany and Carlos until the end of the year but does there remain a possibility that your could lose Carlos from the next race onwards and how keen are you to avoid that sort of disruption?
FT: I'm not aware about this.
Q: (Chris Medland – Racer) So there is no possibility?
FT: No.
Q: (Abhishek Takle – Mid-Day) A question to Yamamoto-san. It's well known that Honda contributed a significant amount to McLaren's budget. Will that amount now go into Toro Rosso's budget? How do the financials work out under this new agreement you have with Toro Rosso?
MY: Well, you probably read a lot of news on the internet. As I want to express here: our relationship with Mr Tost, with Toro Rosso is very amicable and is very leveled. Therefore we are not planning or thinking of having to pay a big budget to keep a position or anything like that.
Q: (Graham Harris – Motorsport Monday) Yamamoto-san, there were rumours before this deal was announced that Honda was considering purchasing Toro Rosso. Was this ever considered as a possibility and if not, would it be something you would consider in the future?
KM: Well, me too, I read it in the news. We never discussed that in our company and we haven't discussed future possibilities either. Anyway, our relationship with Toro Rosso is very good and our ideals and our goals is to get both our strong points, match them together and bring that into a great performance, so it is 50-50.
Q: (Joe Saward – Auto week) Yamamoto-san, are you going to supply Red Bull with engines in 2019?
KM: Well, our main goal now is to absolutely concentrate on 2018 and Toro Rosso, We are going to give our best to achieve our best performance together as a team. But if there is a chance in the future to supply engines, why not. But at the moment track performance is our main goal and that's what we are focused on.
Q: (Dieter Rencken – Racing Lines) Yamamoto-san, Moriyama-san, I don't who can answer this question best, but in the past to Honda Formula One was always a technical exercise but one gets the feeling that since the 2000s or thereabouts it's actually become a marketing or communications exercise. What is Formula One actually to Honda – is it marketing or engineering, and if it is both, what is the split?
KM: Well, as I earlier mentioned and as Mr Moriyama mentioned, Honda's DNA is motor sport and in anything we do work under the racing spirit and therefore it plays a very strong performance in our production, in our challenge, so our workers they have in mind this racing spirit, motor sports as DNA whenever they produce anything. Therefore, we don't divide it into percentages of marketing or technology. It's the mentality, the philosophy of motor sport, DNA, racing spirit into creating anything we do.
Well the following is fiction and for entertainment purposes only:Del Boy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 16:10Maybe Wazari can confirm or deny if Honda have been working towards these goals? And if spec 4.0 is close to achieving this?
1. The MGUH can provide 2MJ of power into the ES every lap
2. The MGUH can provide the MGUK with 120kW for every second the ICE is at or near WOT
2. The MGUK can provide ???kW (I believe 40kW) of power to keep the turbine spooled during the off throttle phase
3. The ES only needs to provide power for the MGUK when the turbine needs spooling and the ICE is not at full boost pressure
These must be the targets what you achieve is another story, this is the F1 formula for the engine. In other words the MGUK should be providing 120kW when ever the loud pedal is being pushed this in COMBINATION with the ICE is the amount of power to the gearbox/wheels. Hybrid engines are very complex and compound Turbo charging has many compromises, but running the MGUK throughout the lap is essential.
Seriously? I'm a fan of F1 since the 80s so I remember Honda powering cars to world championships. I was genuinely excited about F1 for the first time in a while when Honda returned. But it has been a disaster. For 3 years they have churned out sub standard power units. Not only sub standard in terms of power but also reliability. There's something romantic about a Mc-Honda, and while I'm desperately disappointed that it hasn't worked out, to say that Honda have put up with all sorts of rubbish is poor. Yes McLaren and in particular Alonso have been vocal about a lack of power and reliability but it's hardly without reason.Sonador wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 13:11I am so sad
But happy for Honda, the amount of sh*t they have gotten from Mclaren was just cringeworthy.
Mclaren has learned nothing of the great mentality Honda has.
I realy liked the Mclaren of the "old" days, the new Mclaren has become a talented mental diva.
Bit like Alonso ....
No words to describe this situation.
Wow. I don't even pretend to know the implications of the first of these two points. I assumed Spec 4 would appear around mid to late-mid season. If it was useable to some extent from the start of the season, then, well nothing makes sense. Unless McLaren were obsessive about 4kg. Or packaging (again). Or Spec 4 wasn't really ready. Or ... well I don't know.Wazari wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 22:17[...] Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
[...] I could spend hours talking about how good or bad McLaren's chassis is based on race telemetry but now it's a moot point.
I was going to say that in any case I guess we'll find out next year, albeit with new cars, when McLaren goes up against Red Bull, but Renault have really muddied the waters with Red Bull. They don't seem keen at all, so will they give both teams the same level of assistance ? Plus there was Zak's remarks to Abiteboul about getting a superior level from Renault than Red Bull, which may have just been a joke, or an attempt to stir things up a little, I don't know. Too many variables in F1 to deduce anything from the outside ! Ah F1 is fun, and occasionally there's a race too. Red Bull is now handed over to Honda. One must pray that the development department in Sakura use the next one and a half years to create the connection to Mercedes and Ferrari. Renault had the same problem, says Red Bull without mercy. That is why you are not afraid that Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen are already looking for a place to go. "It's not that they have huge confidence in Renault."
Red Bull team boss Christian Horner sees good signs that Honda gets the turn. "At Toro Rosso, the pressure is smaller than at McLaren. Honda will be able to work with Toro Rosso in peace of his problems. Nobody expects the world title of Toro Rosso-Honda. "
Red Bull sees another advantage. A work contract with Honda will save the two teams 42 million euros and probably still a healthy development grant to the cash. This money will allow Red Bull and Toro Rosso to invest in their chassis.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 09952.html
Complete and utter nonsense. Spec 4, Illiens's Spec with the entire new ICE by the way, isn't even ready now. If it was they would have brought it to us to save the partnership they were desperate to keep going. Instead we got drips labelled 3.whatever.Wazari wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 22:17Well the following is fiction and for entertainment purposes only:Del Boy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 16:10Maybe Wazari can confirm or deny if Honda have been working towards these goals? And if spec 4.0 is close to achieving this?
1. The MGUH can provide 2MJ of power into the ES every lap
2. The MGUH can provide the MGUK with 120kW for every second the ICE is at or near WOT
2. The MGUK can provide ???kW (I believe 40kW) of power to keep the turbine spooled during the off throttle phase
3. The ES only needs to provide power for the MGUK when the turbine needs spooling and the ICE is not at full boost pressure
These must be the targets what you achieve is another story, this is the F1 formula for the engine. In other words the MGUK should be providing 120kW when ever the loud pedal is being pushed this in COMBINATION with the ICE is the amount of power to the gearbox/wheels. Hybrid engines are very complex and compound Turbo charging has many compromises, but running the MGUK throughout the lap is essential.
The answer to your questions overall is yes to 1 and 2. #2 is where Mercedes is superior to everyone else at this time. #4 (you have #2 twice) is not that simple. The ES still may be powering K unit when TC is at full boost. Spec 4 focused on many areas including what you mentioned, but primarily a more efficient combustion process.
Now that everyone knows McLaren wanted out before the season started, I feel better that Honda didn't push McLaren harder into using Spec 4 at the start of this season. Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
I am surprised and not surprised at this split. I think it will be difficult for both McLaren and STR in 2018 as PU-chassis integration is not as easy as most people think. It's not just bolting up a PU to your chassis. I think STR will welcome the infusion of cash that Honda will bring. I am surprised that McLaren quit Honda so soon. To me this was really year one. Also I don't care what any company spokesperson from either side says, I have documentation that Honda did not want to go with the "Size Zero" concept for 2015. 2017 should have been 2015. Oh well, what's done is done. I could spend hours talking about how good or bad McLaren's chassis is based on race telemetry but now it's a moot point. Good luck to both STR and McLaren. Honda is on the right track.
Do you realize who you're talking to?McHonda wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 00:39Complete and utter nonsense. Spec 4, Illiens's Spec with the entire new ICE by the way, isn't even ready now. If it was they would have brought it to us to save the partnership they were desperate to keep going. Instead we got drips labelled 3.whatever.Wazari wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 22:17Well the following is fiction and for entertainment purposes only:Del Boy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 16:10Maybe Wazari can confirm or deny if Honda have been working towards these goals? And if spec 4.0 is close to achieving this?
1. The MGUH can provide 2MJ of power into the ES every lap
2. The MGUH can provide the MGUK with 120kW for every second the ICE is at or near WOT
2. The MGUK can provide ???kW (I believe 40kW) of power to keep the turbine spooled during the off throttle phase
3. The ES only needs to provide power for the MGUK when the turbine needs spooling and the ICE is not at full boost pressure
These must be the targets what you achieve is another story, this is the F1 formula for the engine. In other words the MGUK should be providing 120kW when ever the loud pedal is being pushed this in COMBINATION with the ICE is the amount of power to the gearbox/wheels. Hybrid engines are very complex and compound Turbo charging has many compromises, but running the MGUK throughout the lap is essential.
The answer to your questions overall is yes to 1 and 2. #2 is where Mercedes is superior to everyone else at this time. #4 (you have #2 twice) is not that simple. The ES still may be powering K unit when TC is at full boost. Spec 4 focused on many areas including what you mentioned, but primarily a more efficient combustion process.
Now that everyone knows McLaren wanted out before the season started, I feel better that Honda didn't push McLaren harder into using Spec 4 at the start of this season. Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
I am surprised and not surprised at this split. I think it will be difficult for both McLaren and STR in 2018 as PU-chassis integration is not as easy as most people think. It's not just bolting up a PU to your chassis. I think STR will welcome the infusion of cash that Honda will bring. I am surprised that McLaren quit Honda so soon. To me this was really year one. Also I don't care what any company spokesperson from either side says, I have documentation that Honda did not want to go with the "Size Zero" concept for 2015. 2017 should have been 2015. Oh well, what's done is done. I could spend hours talking about how good or bad McLaren's chassis is based on race telemetry but now it's a moot point. Good luck to both STR and McLaren. Honda is on the right track.
I hope the STR fans enjoy the fairytales being spun around here next year but this is one thing I wont miss, sorry. I do need a new name though...
Yes, the guy who claimed to work in combustion and swore we'd be using Esso while BP was only branding and was caught passing off Muramasa's translations of a sportiva article as an internal memo.Squid wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 00:48Do you realize who you're talking to?McHonda wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 00:39Complete and utter nonsense. Spec 4, Illiens's Spec with the entire new ICE by the way, isn't even ready now. If it was they would have brought it to us to save the partnership they were desperate to keep going. Instead we got drips labelled 3.whatever.Wazari wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 22:17
Well the following is fiction and for entertainment purposes only:
The answer to your questions overall is yes to 1 and 2. #2 is where Mercedes is superior to everyone else at this time. #4 (you have #2 twice) is not that simple. The ES still may be powering K unit when TC is at full boost. Spec 4 focused on many areas including what you mentioned, but primarily a more efficient combustion process.
Now that everyone knows McLaren wanted out before the season started, I feel better that Honda didn't push McLaren harder into using Spec 4 at the start of this season. Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
I am surprised and not surprised at this split. I think it will be difficult for both McLaren and STR in 2018 as PU-chassis integration is not as easy as most people think. It's not just bolting up a PU to your chassis. I think STR will welcome the infusion of cash that Honda will bring. I am surprised that McLaren quit Honda so soon. To me this was really year one. Also I don't care what any company spokesperson from either side says, I have documentation that Honda did not want to go with the "Size Zero" concept for 2015. 2017 should have been 2015. Oh well, what's done is done. I could spend hours talking about how good or bad McLaren's chassis is based on race telemetry but now it's a moot point. Good luck to both STR and McLaren. Honda is on the right track.
I hope the STR fans enjoy the fairytales being spun around here next year but this is one thing I wont miss, sorry. I do need a new name though...
Quite the opposite. They have been gearbox makers for decades. Honda had one of the most advanced F1 gearboxes that was to be relased in the 2009 Honda car. The gearset was nearly half the size of the competition and the architecture was so alien that Honda did not reveal it to the world until years after. There is no need for them to make an F1 gearbox right now though.bigblue wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 12:33Maybe Red Bull will design a gearbox for the Honda engine so that they're less reliant on McLaren, and with an eye to the (possible) future ?
I'd like to see Honda do their own gearbox to go with the engine, but don't understand whether this is realistic or not, say because the gearboxes are heavily tailored tso the chassis ? Also, Honda have little experience in this, maybe it is specialised / quite hard to do well ? Anyone have any insight into that ?
McLaren dont have the money to do it and It would be crap if they tried. It takes tremendous amount of money experience past data libraries and infrastructure to build a competitive engine. Even if McLaren start now they would have to figure out who they need to hire and how to build an engine facility first... Even before those people up with an engine design. It is far easier for them to entice a new engine maker or just kneel down to mercedes.
Why is this so hard to believe given that Mclaren: 1) asked and/or agreed to have Honda to enter a year earlier than was wise, 2) insisted on size 0 packaging, and 3) has not been producing great chassis for a while (i.e. their results at Monaco)?McHonda wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 00:39Complete and utter nonsense. Spec 4, Illiens's Spec with the entire new ICE by the way, isn't even ready now. If it was they would have brought it to us to save the partnership they were desperate to keep going. Instead we got drips labelled 3.whatever.Wazari wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 22:17Well the following is fiction and for entertainment purposes only:Del Boy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 16:10Maybe Wazari can confirm or deny if Honda have been working towards these goals? And if spec 4.0 is close to achieving this?
1. The MGUH can provide 2MJ of power into the ES every lap
2. The MGUH can provide the MGUK with 120kW for every second the ICE is at or near WOT
2. The MGUK can provide ???kW (I believe 40kW) of power to keep the turbine spooled during the off throttle phase
3. The ES only needs to provide power for the MGUK when the turbine needs spooling and the ICE is not at full boost pressure
These must be the targets what you achieve is another story, this is the F1 formula for the engine. In other words the MGUK should be providing 120kW when ever the loud pedal is being pushed this in COMBINATION with the ICE is the amount of power to the gearbox/wheels. Hybrid engines are very complex and compound Turbo charging has many compromises, but running the MGUK throughout the lap is essential.
The answer to your questions overall is yes to 1 and 2. #2 is where Mercedes is superior to everyone else at this time. #4 (you have #2 twice) is not that simple. The ES still may be powering K unit when TC is at full boost. Spec 4 focused on many areas including what you mentioned, but primarily a more efficient combustion process.
Now that everyone knows McLaren wanted out before the season started, I feel better that Honda didn't push McLaren harder into using Spec 4 at the start of this season. Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
I am surprised and not surprised at this split. I think it will be difficult for both McLaren and STR in 2018 as PU-chassis integration is not as easy as most people think. It's not just bolting up a PU to your chassis. I think STR will welcome the infusion of cash that Honda will bring. I am surprised that McLaren quit Honda so soon. To me this was really year one. Also I don't care what any company spokesperson from either side says, I have documentation that Honda did not want to go with the "Size Zero" concept for 2015. 2017 should have been 2015. Oh well, what's done is done. I could spend hours talking about how good or bad McLaren's chassis is based on race telemetry but now it's a moot point. Good luck to both STR and McLaren. Honda is on the right track.
I hope the STR fans enjoy the fairytales being spun around here next year but this is one thing I wont miss, sorry. I do need a new name though...
Wazari wrote: There's a saying in Japan, He might be higher than testicles on a giraffe...........