Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Tommy Cookers]

maybe we should all read this
https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/ ... _2_1b.html
and this
https://www.steel.org/~/media/Files/Aut ... 0Usage.pdf

pearlite is a good example of a multiphase steel structure going back 150 years
in the current case we should use the buzzphrase 'low yield to strength ratio' steel
this is also a vital property for improved strength in cars made by pressing sheet steel

[godlameroso]

Intermediate 2 is a few dozen meters after the hairpin, going uphill, and is an indication of chassis performance.

[godlameroso]

Does anyone think any manufacturer is doing something interesting with the intake and exhaust ports? Something like dimpling on the runners, or some more sophisticated geometry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbmrQIQOr0

[gruntguru]

Does anyone think any manufacturer is doing something interesting with the intake and exhaust ports? Something like dimpling on the runners, or some more sophisticated geometry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbmrQIQOr0

If dimpling offers a performance advantage in an F1 engine someone will be doing it. Funny the bodywork, wings etc aren't dimpled yet.

[MrPotatoHead]

Does anyone think any manufacturer is doing something interesting with the intake and exhaust ports? Something like dimpling on the runners, or some more sophisticated geometry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbmrQIQOr0

NO!
Port Dimpling is nothing but snake oil and no one in F1 does it because of this.

[MrPotatoHead]

Does anyone think any manufacturer is doing something interesting with the intake and exhaust ports? Something like dimpling on the runners, or some more sophisticated geometry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbmrQIQOr0

If dimpling offers a performance advantage in an F1 engine someone will be doing it. Funny the bodywork, wings etc aren't dimpled yet.

It's been tried. F1 cars are not golf balls.

[JonoNic]

Does anyone think any manufacturer is doing something interesting with the intake and exhaust ports? Something like dimpling on the runners, or some more sophisticated geometry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbmrQIQOr0

If dimpling offers a performance advantage in an F1 engine someone will be doing it. Funny the bodywork, wings etc aren't dimpled yet.

It's been tried. F1 cars are not golf balls.

When you compare a dimple to the size of a golf ball then barge boards are about the same size in relation to the car.

[ziggy]

I remember reading some replies that suggested in was either Cylinder cutting or the sound of the firing order.

I personally love the sound, almost like traction control era

From the article:

But perfecting the software to allow the advantages of HCCI principal at appropriate revs and loads, but switching to conventional ignition outside of those limits has proved feasible. The characteristic ‘misfire’ sound of the Honda on part throttle is believed to be the audible giveaway of the changeover point between the two modes.

The effect can also be heard – but less aggressively - on the Ferrari. With the Mercedes however, there is no aural evidence. It’s believed the Mercedes engine has featured this technology from the start in 2014, that it was also incorporated into Honda’s first engine last year and that Ferrari adopted the technology last year. Renault would this be the last of the four manufacturers to introduce it. Although details are sketchy at this point, it’s clear that this new technology has been a major part of the F1 power war in the hybrid turbo formula.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opini ... wer-secret

No. stop. just top. Outdated article aaand look who wrote it. Mark Hughes is one of the better journalists out there, but he is not the guy for technical articles. Just no. I rather trust a scarbs or James Allen (who is veerrry careful when he reports tech features) for technical stuff.

You have a better source or explanation? Sorry, but your personal feelings about James Allen, Scarbs or Mark Hughes don't bring us any further.

Little bit OT, but Mazda accomplished the mentioned technology for serial production. And the engine is said to have a "weird" sound, whatever that means.

[PlatinumZealot]

The way HCCI works it is not suitable for F1 engines at high rpms... Hcci is compression ignition which is too slow for f1.

TJI is what we know is used in Ferrari Mercedes and Renault. Honda is yet to be confirmed but it was alluded to by hasegawa that the engine has all the
" lastest" technologies.

[godlameroso]

Does anyone think any manufacturer is doing something interesting with the intake and exhaust ports? Something like dimpling on the runners, or some more sophisticated geometry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbmrQIQOr0

NO!
Port Dimpling is nothing but snake oil and no one in F1 does it because of this.

Is It? I've seen it on a few flow benches to know it flows a few more cfm than a standard port job. It's not a huge improvement but it is worth a little power. Not sure if the costs are worth it though.

[etusch]

The way HCCI works it is not suitable for F1 engines at high rpms... Hcci is compression ignition which is too slow for f1.

TJI is what we know is used in Ferrari Mercedes and Renault. Honda is yet to be confirmed but it was alluded to by hasegawa that the engine has all the
" lastest" technologies.

What makes you think that they use HCCI same as on civic cars without any development? Are you sure that that technology can not be go forward?

[MrPotatoHead]

Does anyone think any manufacturer is doing something interesting with the intake and exhaust ports? Something like dimpling on the runners, or some more sophisticated geometry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbmrQIQOr0

NO!
Port Dimpling is nothing but snake oil and no one in F1 does it because of this.

Is It? I've seen it on a few flow benches to know it flows a few more cfm than a standard port job. It's not a huge improvement but it is worth a little power. Not sure if the costs are worth it though.

There is more to what makes a good port than cfm though of course.
While I’m sure there are some specific cases where dimpled ports might flow more in general it only helps if there is something wrong with the port.
All you are doing is increasing the thickness of the boundary layer in the port. This tends to make the port look smaller which can sometimes increase velocity, but in general it’s nothing but hype.

BMW actually publishes a white paper on it back in the 80s and found zero gains from it. If it was worth anything F1 engine builders would have been using it for decades. After all cost is no limit on F1 cylinder heads when it comes to increasing performance.

I’ve personally asked dozens of the best head porters in the world about it and they all have the same opinion that I do.
I’ll save the politics about why port dimpling is pushed by one brand of CNC Machine as this isn’t the place for that.

[Wazari]

Port dimpling..........by doing so you are increasing the surface area of the port which is typically not a desired thing. Interesting things can be done and accomplished by piston crown dimpling........possible point to ponder.

Also I think some might be getting CVCC and HCCI confused with each other. They are not the same technology.

[ncassi22]

Port dimpling..........by doing so you are increasing the surface area of the port which is typically not a desired thing. Interesting things can be done and accomplished by piston crown dimpling........possible point to ponder.

Also I think some might be getting CVCC and HCCI confused with each other. They are not the same technology.

It would be interesting to know what type of pre-chamber the teams use. Whether it is a full 'TJI' style system with nozzle style holes or a CVCC-like open port. I think the advantage would be TJI being quicker to ignite the majority of the fuel, however the purpose of both would be to ignite extremely lean mixtures and hence improve fuel economy. Also interesting would be where these chambers are. The piston? The injector? The head? They all have pros and cons... Penetration, heat loss and wetting, cooling after expansion/exhaust stroke to prevent knock etc.

[ncassi22]

The way HCCI works it is not suitable for F1 engines at high rpms... Hcci is compression ignition which is too slow for f1.

TJI is what we know is used in Ferrari Mercedes and Renault. Honda is yet to be confirmed but it was alluded to by hasegawa that the engine has all the
" lastest" technologies.

HCCI ignition is quicker than SI. Would the issue not be a control and excessive cylinder pressure issue? Ultra lean Lean HCCI can be assisted by TJI/CVCC to ignite reliably (Forced into HCCI mode). Nice thing about these MGU-H assisted turbos, are that you can get high boost pressures at lower RPM and load - maybe do psuedo HCCI in these lower reaches to increase economy.