2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[j.yank]

Boulier and Brown are probably jumping with optimism for next year seeing how the Renault PUs blowing up left and right.
By the way, another glorious pitstop from Mclaren.

Mclaren chassis for president!

Meanwhile a Renault powered chassis won the race

Mmmm, BTW where are the Renault cars? It seems obvious to me the wishful thinking that McLaren has the same quality chassis like RedBull.

[fellowhoodlums]

McLaren does better only in slow corners sectors with heavy stop\go events, while RedBull performs better in all sections and circuits. This doesn't speak well for the McLaren aero package. BTW, only one of the RedBulls got updated version of Renault engine this weekend, the other one seems elevated with McLaren. The sudden jump in McLaren-Honda performance cannot be explained only with their chassis, unless if you think that right now the McLaren chassis outperforms the top three teams at least by a second, which is highly doubtful.

Your point being? As you said Mclaren does better in slow corners but not only, they have performed as good as the top teams in every high DF sector and in turns with fast change of direction. Every track with lower throttle application per lap, lower dependency on PU, was favorable for Mclaren and we can see, and heard from commentators, how well balanced Mclaren is under braking.

The other RB had to change it's PU, take a close look at the Renault's that we know that dont have a great chassis and how they are performing in this track and compare with the RB's.

Finally some logic. The lower the percentage of full throttle per lap the better their package does. Mexico had a similar full throttle percentage to that of Hungary. Anyone that looked at the live timing would see them losing half a second in sector one alone to all the other teams and then claw more than that back in the last two sectors.

That's great info. So the PU weakness has improved to just being straight line speed/high end acceleration? Before it had issues all over including low end torque and general drivability.

[DFX]

That's great info. So the PU weakness has improved to just being straight line speed/high end acceleration? Before it had issues all over including low end torque and general drivability.

It appears to be the case. If I remember correctly, spec 3.7 had bring a marginal power gain but it's main focus was low end torque and drivability. In this area Honda appears to have come a long way.

[alonsofan]

If Honda is better than Renault come 2018, it's either Ferrari or Merc for Fred come 2019, else Fred says goodbye to F1.

[Alonso Fan]

It's amazing and funny in the same time how some people here spread stuff that McLaren is holding back the GREAT HONDA P.U. hahahaah

Sure sure guys. Also, let's not forget that McLaren seems to do better when Red Bull does, too. You see in this track, Red Bull almost got pole position....

McLaren does better only in slow corners sectors with heavy stop\go events, while RedBull performs better in all sections and circuits. This doesn't speak well for the McLaren aero package. BTW, only one of the RedBulls got updated version of Renault engine this weekend, the other one seems elevated with McLaren. The sudden jump in McLaren-Honda performance cannot be explained only with their chassis, unless if you think that right now the McLaren chassis outperforms the top three teams at least by a second, which is highly doubtful.

What sudden jump in performance? There was no sudden jump in performance not at least compared to the other 'less full throttle' circuits like this one.

I did say after fp1 that Alonso looked mighty but I was comparing to last year and we know they had suspension issues and that the long straight hampered them more than this year. But when you compare to similar tracks this year the result and pace isn't a big surprise. Add in the fact that mexico has a lot of heavy braking zones which allow the battery to recharge more often and you see that it's no big deal.

Hopefully Brazil is similar

[DFX]

Interlagos has 42% of throttle application per lap, BUT it also has 2 long straights. One of them, the main straight, is also a major climb which will most likely makes Mclaren beg for mercy.

[Xero]

Truth is both the chassis and PU have improved over the course of the season. I don't understand why some people don't believe McLaren are capable of developing a chassis that is a match to Red Bull, as if Red Bull are untouchable in that department. Let's not forget, over the RB dominance years McLaren was the only team to out-develop them. Different personnel I know, but mostly still the same, with the same resources and tools to do so.

The latest developments have unquestionably improved the performance of the chassis, you can visibly see it on track when it quickly changes direction, it's planted. They're developing for next year, and adding downforce to the car that they couldn't before. To me, that's why they are quick through the corners, look very slow down the straights, all while adding extra stress to the PU which has led to all these recent failures.

[max_speed]

i just want mclaren to be in fight for next year. dnt wish it to be the best car but something like redbull. watching fed , fighting with HAM, VER, RiC, and VET will be an awesome treat.

[GhostF1]

i just want mclaren to be in fight for next year. dnt wish it to be the best car but something like redbull. watching fed , fighting with HAM, VER, RiC, and VET will be an awesome treat.

Agreed, I'd also love to see Stoffel in a really competitive car as well, see him mix it with the big boys.

[Fulcrum]

The performance differential of the Mercedes engine in Hamilton's car relative to Alonso's Honda was absolutely amazing down the main straight. Half a second without DRS, and he managed the pass when the gap was 0.9 at the line.

[j.yank]

It's amazing and funny in the same time how some people here spread stuff that McLaren is holding back the GREAT HONDA P.U. hahahaah

Sure sure guys. Also, let's not forget that McLaren seems to do better when Red Bull does, too. You see in this track, Red Bull almost got pole position....

McLaren does better only in slow corners sectors with heavy stop\go events, while RedBull performs better in all sections and circuits. This doesn't speak well for the McLaren aero package. BTW, only one of the RedBulls got updated version of Renault engine this weekend, the other one seems elevated with McLaren. The sudden jump in McLaren-Honda performance cannot be explained only with their chassis, unless if you think that right now the McLaren chassis outperforms the top three teams at least by a second, which is highly doubtful.

What sudden jump in performance? There was no sudden jump in performance not at least compared to the other 'less full throttle' circuits like this one.

I did say after fp1 that Alonso looked mighty but I was comparing to last year and we know they had suspension issues and that the long straight hampered them more than this year. But when you compare to similar tracks this year the result and pace isn't a big surprise. Add in the fact that mexico has a lot of heavy braking zones which allow the battery to recharge more often and you see that it's no big deal.

Hopefully Brazil is similar

If you check qualification timings of MH and top teams and make corrections for the length of each circuit you will see that last two races McLaren-Honda perform significantly better, with the last qualification being the best performance for the last two seasons. In the race they had problems with the traffic, otherwise they would have also perform significantly better than any other race this season. Compare Alonso and Ocon times and you will see that when there were not a slow driver ahead, Alonso on average is faster 0.5 sec than Ocon. If he started little bit ahead on the grid I would guess that he would got the 5th place.

[etusch]

i just want mclaren to be in fight for next year. dnt wish it to be the best car but something like redbull. watching fed , fighting with HAM, VER, RiC, and VET will be an awesome treat.

Something redbull ? I think redbull is best chassis or one of the best with Ferrari. They lost on power side.

Alonso said that this performance is because of the car, engine is still same. So he must admit that if car was so good as they had claimed from start of season now, they could show this performance earlier races.
We already know because of redbull that if you have a good car you can do better with same engine. Now this is visible on McLaren. It comes again lack of another Honda powered team for comparation.

[SameSame]

That's great info. So the PU weakness has improved to just being straight line speed/high end acceleration? Before it had issues all over including low end torque and general drivability.

It appears so. Coupled with the gains made from McLaren on the chassis side and they have become a real force. They mentioned trialing out new suspension elements. Sector 2 was medium speed corners and Sector 3 high speed; both of which they now seem to be on top of.

The PU straight line deficit became painfully obvious when they could not get past the Saubers; despite being ~1.7s faster per lap in clean air. It was again noticeable in the live timing how Alonso would have a gap of ~0.4s heading onto the main straight and he was still not able to get close to the Sauber despite DRS and slipstream.

[stevesingo]

It's amazing and funny in the same time how some people here spread stuff that McLaren is holding back the GREAT HONDA P.U. hahahaah

Sure sure guys. Also, let's not forget that McLaren seems to do better when Red Bull does, too. You see in this track, Red Bull almost got pole position....

McLaren does better only in slow corners sectors with heavy stop\go events, while RedBull performs better in all sections and circuits. This doesn't speak well for the McLaren aero package. BTW, only one of the RedBulls got updated version of Renault engine this weekend, the other one seems elevated with McLaren. The sudden jump in McLaren-Honda performance cannot be explained only with their chassis, unless if you think that right now the McLaren chassis outperforms the top three teams at least by a second, which is highly doubtful.

What sudden jump in performance? There was no sudden jump in performance not at least compared to the other 'less full throttle' circuits like this one.

I did say after fp1 that Alonso looked mighty but I was comparing to last year and we know they had suspension issues and that the long straight hampered them more than this year. But when you compare to similar tracks this year the result and pace isn't a big surprise. Add in the fact that mexico has a lot of heavy braking zones which allow the battery to recharge more often and you see that it's no big deal.

Hopefully Brazil is similar

The bolded is a key point. Higher altitude=less air density=less drag=more work for the brakes to do slowing the car down from a higher top speed due to less drag. Therefore, more MGU-K recovery in comparison to MGU-H recovery as there is lower % full throttle also.

So, essentially the circuit masks some of the weaknesses of the Honda PU namely MGU-H recovery.

[Schuttelberg]

If Honda is better than Renault come 2018, it's either Ferrari or Merc for Fred come 2019, else Fred says goodbye to F1.

Why on earth will either of those teams hire him?

Both the teams you mentioned have already an A-List driver and for the second seats they're grooming Ocon and Leclerc. Also, there's no reason for Ferrari to hire someone who damaged their brand so much.