Is a level playing field worth losing historic teams?

[PlatinumZealot]

It hasn't been said, but I have a hunch that Ferrari already has shares in Formula 1 and are actually secret owners. The 100 million they earn is just the payment they agreed in the formative years with Bernie/Belasterre or whoever was in charge at the time. You cannot fall back on an agreement so I think the payment itself is justified, but not the amount.

[Just_a_fan]

The agreement ends at a given point (whenever that is - next year? 2020? ). From then on it will be down to Liberty to decide whether they want to stand up to Ferrari or carry on as before.

Perhaps McLaren, Williams, Renault, Mercedes etc. should all demand extra money too. After all, a series with just two Ferraris racing each other is no good to Liberty either.

[FrukostScones]

2013 was prob. levelled AS never Seen before in F1. I think in 2019 2020 it will be the same again... Only to be torn apart by New regs again. Liberty just wants F1 NASCAR with cautions and action
They dient care about the history oft F1 which always was a war oft the biggest marques with the best and most expensives enigineers.

[Zynerji]

New Historic teams will be made on the level playing field if the current Historic Handicaps being removed drives out some teams.

Loud mouthed, public displays of self entitlement in a competitive environment makes my teeth itch, and literally destroys my interest in their brand.

[adrianjordan]

Meanwhile, as for Mclaren; what's really left of them after 2009? What have they proven to achieve still?

How do you mean "what's left"?? They have a lot of excellent staff, they have excellent facilities and are once again building a team up to return to where they belong. They are widely credited with having a much better chassis in the 2017 season than the last couple (thanks to the new and returning staff they recruited) and have one of the best drivers in the field in the team.

As for what they have achieved since 2009, well in they have finished in the WCC in 2nd twice and 3rd once. Granted from 2013 they have been in a slump and haven't been helped by their failed partnership with Honda. But I would not put them in the same class as Williams at the moment. For example I cannot imagine Mclaren even entertaining the thought of taking on a pay driver!!

[Manoah2u]

Meanwhile, as for Mclaren; what's really left of them after 2009? What have they proven to achieve still?

How do you mean "what's left"?? They have a lot of excellent staff, they have excellent facilities and are once again building a team up to return to where they belong. They are widely credited with having a much better chassis in the 2017 season than the last couple (thanks to the new and returning staff they recruited) and have one of the best drivers in the field in the team.

As for what they have achieved since 2009, well in they have finished in the WCC in 2nd twice and 3rd once. Granted from 2013 they have been in a slump and haven't been helped by their failed partnership with Honda. But I would not put them in the same class as Williams at the moment. For example i cannot imagine Mclaren even entertaining the thought of taking on a pay driver!!

i'm not going to further participate in poking a dead horse that just keeps being milked out topic after topic day after day. i've had more than enough from all these endless discussions regarding Mclaren, Honda, etc. it's like a disease that it's still keeping on time after time.

I also can imagine the frustration the mods must be having by now from trying to control this nonsense, so i'm not going to give them another reason for needing to mod again over the same and the same and the same.

I have my response to the above, but i have zero motivation any longer to express it. I think more people should do that here and decide to leave stuff behind and just wait for what is about to come.

[Just_a_fan]

Meanwhile, as for Mclaren; what's really left of them after 2009? What have they proven to achieve still? Williams like wise. Nothing but an endless pit
of throwing money into and seeing it have no performane results whatsoever.

Things turn around. Ferrari was a waste of time for basically the whole of the 80s and 90s. Two decades of "what's the point?". Then they brought in new management from outside the Ferrari fold and won five years on the bounce.

Things change. Fortunes rise and fall.

[f1316]

2013 was prob. levelled AS never Seen before in F1.

9 straight victories for one driver/team? Don’t think so. It was only RB’s issues with the original spec tyres that prevented them being dominant at the start - as soon as they reverted to 2012-spec tyres, they were miles ahead and it’s because they were masters at exhaust blowing, which no one else could match. Same regs in 2014 and they’d have been as dominant as Mercedes were.

Back on topic though, I think it’ll be easy enough for them to find an arrangement that pleases both sides - it’ll just be down to allowing manufacturers to develop engines whilst simplifying them a bit but not to the extent that the current V6s need to be thrown out. They’ll find a balance.

But make no mistake: F1 would be much weaker without Ferrari; of course it’ll survive but it’d probably be similar to the Indy/champ car split from which everyone suffered and the series never recovered. As in that analogy, Ferrari would also be worse off, but suspect anything that drove them to leave would also do the same for Mercedes (if not Renault) and would severely weaken the credibility of the series.

[gshevlin]

The question that the "Ferrari will leave" doomsayers usually never get around to answering is: where will Ferrari go race?
Ferrari is in Formula 1 to promote its brand. It spends little extra money on continuous promotion outside of F1 because formula 1 is the Ferrari promotional window. Not only that, but with the $100m or thereabouts that Ferrari gets from Liberty just for showing up, plus all of the commercial income from sponsors, and the revenues from supplying power units to Haas and Sauber, Ferrari's formula 1 program has, by many accounts, been self-financing for a majority of its recent time in F1.
So...if Ferrari leaves, how will it compensate for that loss of market positioning and guaranteed revenues?
None of the other series that Ferrari could race in have the same marketing profile. Ferrari ought to be able to compete and win in one or more other racing series, but it will have to spend real money (i.e. its own money) to do so, since no other series is likely to be willing to offer it a deal like the one it currently gets from Liberty. Additionally, Ferrari would have to spend a lot of money on promotion.
So when people say "Ferrari will leave" I always reply "they can leave, but where will they get a better deal?"