What about Formula 1.5?

[Conceptual]

To be honest, these are mere speculations. F1.5, FN are just a way of saying many GP races are quite boring. I hate to admit it, but when the main point of interest is a pit strategy instead of a takeover, we start wondering what's wrong with F1 and what can be done to improve it.

If by any chance one F1.5 became more of a technological achievement and more entertaining than F1, what would happen? F1.5 becomes F1??

BINGO! And then the regs for the NEW F1.5 would push more technology forward.

That is precisely the point, and having a R&D focus, it is much more palatable to the manufacturers when justifying the expense.

Imagine what the Honda road cars would offer in 2012 if F1.5 existed. With 4 years of AWD development, and system integrations to reduce parts/mass, the 2012 Civic would be a very viable energy crisis killer.

And the interest would skyrocket in the US, with a good media campaign pointing out the technological advancements of the series.

What dreams may come.

Chris

[tarzoon]

BINGO! And then the regs for the NEW F1.5 would push more technology forward.

That is precisely the point, and having a R&D focus, it is much more palatable to the manufacturers when justifying the expense.

Imagine what the Honda road cars would offer in 2012 if F1.5 existed. With 4 years of AWD development, and system integrations to reduce parts/mass, the 2012 Civic would be a very viable energy crisis killer.

And the interest would skyrocket in the US, with a good media campaign pointing out the technological advancements of the series.

What dreams may come.

Chris

I can see your point. Yet the only potential viability of it would be if the regulations demanded eco-whatever-alternative-fuels. That would be the biggest leap forward that I can think of. Maybe even Ken Livingstone would consider a city circuit around London, no congestion charge added, of course!...

[Conceptual]

BINGO! And then the regs for the NEW F1.5 would push more technology forward.

That is precisely the point, and having a R&D focus, it is much more palatable to the manufacturers when justifying the expense.

Imagine what the Honda road cars would offer in 2012 if F1.5 existed. With 4 years of AWD development, and system integrations to reduce parts/mass, the 2012 Civic would be a very viable energy crisis killer.

And the interest would skyrocket in the US, with a good media campaign pointing out the technological advancements of the series.

What dreams may come.

Chris

I can see your point. Yet the only potential viability of it would be if the regulations demanded eco-whatever-alternative-fuels. That would be the biggest leap forward that I can think of. Maybe even Ken Livingstone would consider a city circuit around London, no congestion charge added, of course!...

See, now you are talking of diverging the series'. It would be WONDERFUL to take these eco-race cars and display their ability on a street course in your pick of 20 major cities in the world.

But that would be a breakaway, and not conducive to cost. I am more of the mind of a siamese sister series, that works together to increase development of eco-drive engines, and decrease the cost. Even if decreasing the cost is by offsetting it with the sponsor dollars for 2 seperate media events, as well as the TV money split for the winners.

I think if F1.5 could pull as much sponsorship as F1 does, by splitting the teams into 1 car per series, gives the sponsors more media coverage, and quite possibly more eyeballs than F1 itself.

Let them call it F1 Prototype or whatever. Split the teams, and let the OWG pen the technical regs for the Prototype series.

I think that the teams would readily join in, and so would the sponsors. Imagine, the teams would choose what driver per series. If Kimi and Jenson went to F1.5, so would about 120 million eyeballs. And I think that the racing would OWN.

Chris

[fastback33]

Hopefully Tony George and the investors of Cart/IRL are reading. They could nearly take over if they only paid attention to the fans. [-o< =D>

[Conceptual]

Hopefully Tony George and the investors of Cart/IRL are reading. They could nearly take over if they only paid attention to the fans. [-o< =D>

I'm sincerely crossing my fingers on that, since it would be GREAT for the US image.

Now if we can only STOP killing people because they won't take our Dollars, we could be on our way to repairing our International Image.

Chris

[Belatti]

Got an idea!
Why dont they make F1, F1.5 and F1.68?
All the teams will run with a push foward technology button in F1.22 but without it in F1.55
Max will be president of both F1.66 and F1.77 but Bernie will remain as what he is doing right now. The manufacturers can run in every series but only with engines in F1.5 ana chasis in F1 and F1.68 wich are not the formulas that Max and Bernie will be in, so no problems with Nazi whores and TV rights. One set of tires permited per race in F1 but 2 and a half in F1.5 if you where behind 10th position in friday practice in F1.68 that will make Friday interesting to watch.
In F1.68 only parents will be allowed to run, so we will se two piquet-rosberg duels, but only if the cars run a lot of wings in both series.
We can make the cars run fast in F1 but make fake overtaking with KERS in F1.5 only if rosberg and piquet wants, with wings and slicks will be only in F1.68, hopefully with max and bernie approval in F1.77 and F1.66
After all this track action fans will be delighted because I asume that they will gain a lot more bucks from TV and Chinese. So logistics will be hard.


So, seriously Chris, I can´t follow you, WTF are you trying to invent? Gunpwder has already been invented... by Chinese... LONG LONG TIME AGO!

Leave F1 as it is, I love the way it is!! Only needs bigger slicks, less aero dependance (NO 10,000 crappy little wings) and a big fat diffuser.

[Conceptual]

Got an idea!
Why dont they make F1, F1.5 and F1.68?
All the teams will run with a push foward technology button in F1.22 but without it in F1.55
Max will be president of both F1.66 and F1.77 but Bernie will remain as what he is doing right now. The manufacturers can run in every series but only with engines in F1.5 ana chasis in F1 and F1.68 wich are not the formulas that Max and Bernie will be in, so no problems with Nazi whores and TV rights. One set of tires permited per race in F1 but 2 and a half in F1.5 if you where behind 10th position in friday practice in F1.68 that will make Friday interesting to watch.
In F1.68 only parents will be allowed to run, so we will se two piquet-rosberg duels, but only if the cars run a lot of wings in both series.
We can make the cars run fast in F1 but make fake overtaking with KERS in F1.5 only if rosberg and piquet wants, with wings and slicks will be only in F1.68, hopefully with max and bernie approval in F1.77 and F1.66
After all this track action fans will be delighted because I asume that they will gain a lot more bucks from TV and Chinese. So logistics will be hard.


So, seriously Chris, I can´t follow you, WTF are you trying to invent? Gunpwder has already been invented... by Chinese... LONG LONG TIME AGO!

Leave F1 as it is, I love the way it is!! Only needs bigger slicks, less aero dependance (NO 10,000 crappy little wings) and a big fat diffuser.

Belatti,

Please understand that F1 is a sport, a business, a media spectacle as well as a development platform for automotive technology. Everything that I suggested is in line with promoting all four of those concepts.

I can care less what your personal mysticism says that F1 "should be". The bolded text in your quote clearly points out what you are saying, and that is that you only disagree with what I stated based upon your personal feelings, and what would make you happy. Fortunately the people in charge have a bit more Logic governing their decisions than you painfully exibit.

Run for President of the FIA, and then you can do what you "feel" is best.

Until then, let others be free to discuss what would LOGICALLY increase the value of F1 to mankind.

Chris

[Belatti]

I can care less what your personal mysticism says that F1 "should be".

So, we both do!

Don´t you see it, you are just like me but with the "polite" thing. Just a couple of nobodies who say they would change F1 for good.
And my "personal feelings" says your idea is too complicated to work.
Read Whiteblue sign for more understanding!
So, go on discussing your LOGICAL increase value of F1 and dont tell me "let others" because I´m not baning you or anybody.

Regards,

The polirythm minded man.

[Conceptual]

I can care less what your personal mysticism says that F1 "should be".

So, we both do!

Don´t you see it, you are just like me but with the "polite" thing. Just a couple of nobodies who say they would change F1 for good.
And my "personal feelings" says your idea is too complicated to work.
Read Whiteblue sign for more understanding!
So, go on discussing your LOGICAL increase value of F1 and dont tell me "let others" because I´m not baning you or anybody.

Regards,

The polirythm minded man.

I'm not simply being polite and expressing my gut feelings of how things could be better. I am stating clear and concise possibilities that could be explored for the benefit of the sport, the teams, the fans and the FOM.

I don't care too much personally beyond increasing the technology, and decreasing the banning of innovative technology.

After that, my gut says "Whatever."

Chris

[Carlos]

What about Formula 1.5? - "Whatever."

[Ciro Pabón]

I think FIA has the obligation to provide a more reasonable transition between series.

They've already done it in karting, a more democratic series, changing the names from Formula A, ICA and ICA Junior to Kart Formula One, Two, Three and Four. The myriad of regulations for "gearboxed" karts changed a little and now we have two top categories, KZ1 and KZ2.

You start in Kart Formula Four, move to Three, then you qualify among the first 34 drivers to move to Two and One. Perfectly reasonable, not to mention the move to change the expensive 100 cc engines for more accesible TaG 125 cc engines.

The European championship starts next Sunday, at Paris (well, 70 km to the south), with 104 persons competing for KZ2. It can be done.

So, it's not "whatever", it's a must. The "one step forward-two steps backwards" approach to F1 regulations has not worked very well.

Imagine KERS, it's going to be a nightmare, but hey, some people was opposed to use fire in 50.000 BC, some others were opposed to assault the Bastille, you have a right to be conservative.

After all, it took what? Four years to get straight the qualy process? And some people is not happy with it yet... but FIA is afraid to touch it. "If it works don't fix it", it's the series motto.

Anyway, I'll be singing "Allons enfants de la patrie..." next Sunday. Tremble, monarchists!

[CMSMJ1]

I also don't quite get what you are after Chris.

Why does it have to be f1.5?

It would make more sense to allow F1 itself to be the vanguard of technical ability and research in an automotive setting.

Sometimes, and please do not take this too personally, I am put off from posting in "your" threads as I do not have the patience to get into a "banging my head on the wall" competition with you. I would prefer not to be confrontational but you would alwys shout the oudest in a thread and it would deter me from getting into the discussion.

[Carlos]

We already did this thread. Suggestions were pretty good. This is the 4th thread Conceptual has started on the same theme. There was Unrestricted Design of an F1 car Question. Welcome to the *New* F1!. and [Perfect racing] Designing the perfect racing series. Each one is the same. Every thread ends an argument with Conceptual. Remember the first one ... [Perfect racing]... which was a real banging your head against the wall, Conceptual's confrontation was:

"If it is serious, can we ask F1T.net to set up a stand alone forum for it? I would hate to make a different one and pull members from this forum. I'm sure that the owners would greatly dislike losing traffic and their sponsorship... "
Who is the person to ask for that?
Chris"

CMSMJ1 has a point.

[Conceptual]

We already did this thread. Suggestions were pretty good. This is the 4th thread Conceptual has started on the same theme. There was Unrestricted Design of an F1 car Question. Welcome to the *New* F1!. and [Perfect racing] Designing the perfect racing series. Each one is the same. Every thread ends an argument with Conceptual. Remember the first one ... [Perfect racing]... which was a real banging your head against the wall, Conceptual's confrontation was:

"If it is serious, can we ask F1T.net to set up a stand alone forum for it? I would hate to make a different one and pull members from this forum. I'm sure that the owners would greatly dislike losing traffic and their sponsorship... "
Who is the person to ask for that?
Chris"

CMSMJ1 has a point.

I understand. Unfortunately, you do not.

I have made those posts, and they are based upon the same theme, but your perspective of them being the same is skewed. If you are saying that I am argumentive because I post ideas about how to make F1 "better" in a rational and realistic fashion, then you need to check your dictionary.

Remember, Edison said that he didn't fail 10,000 times at inveting the light bulb, he found 10,000 ways NOT to build one. I tend to believe that there is a real solution to solve the issues in F1, and forum discussion is the perfect place to bounce ideas around, because there are so many critical and educated perspectives here. Maybe you should be less ignorant of the fact that I wouldn't even post here if I didn't respect the views of everyone here, including yourselves. I don't require lines of "You F*ing ROCK MAN!" when I post. I want holes shot through my ideas, so I can change my approach to the problem, and post again when I have a better solution.

In fact, when you look at it that way, by barraging and shooting down all of those other "argumentative threads based upon different approaches to the same issue" threads, I wouldn't have been able to evolve the idea past post 1.

F1.5 of F1 Prototype as a siamese sister series would be an atomic explosion. It would put the teams back in charge of the application of their trade, as well as be a worldwide technological display of the highest technology known to man.

But, if you want to watch the current F1 instead, I guess you just don't want to lose your favorite thing to hate.

Chris

[Carlos]

"But, if you want to watch the current F1 instead, I guess you just don't want to lose your favorite thing to hate." Chris

Chris - Don't be a troll. Never think you know what my opinions are, I'll write them and post them myself.

In the first thread on the subject I wrote my opinion. I'll offer it with a few mild restrictions. An open wheel Fomula Libre with specified fuel type,and fuel load, specified downforce and saftey regulations including a regulated maximum cornering G limit within a safe margin, a totally open series, any size,type or engine configuration, any kind of aero, suspension or tire, Kers, Hers or whatever energy management system that produces the race winner.