2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[RonDennis]

Both TR and Mclaren are running non-optimised solutions as the change was too late and is a major overhaul. Expect inseason developments. James key said they are already exploring ideas for 2019.

I would very interested to know more about the rear suspension which is very different to last years. This was a major focus for the guys at TR.

That's because of the engine, just look at the rear suspension of McLaren, it's completely different as well.

[McMika98]

Yes Mclaren suspension is a refined STR suspension from last year and is getting a lot of praise from so called pundits. The Honda layout does compromise the suspension and gives greater freedom and STR appears to have gone for something different, im no expert so cant tell specifics.

[ivanlesk]

ivanlesk you are missing the point people are trying to make. They are not saying the TR chassis was designed for the Honda. What they are saying is that the TR chassis is of a design that Honda aren't hamstrung by limitations (mainly size and cooling) as they were with the Mclaren size zero philosophy chassis. Things like being able to use a larger turbo means more power and energy recovery from the mgu-h.

If by the end of may the TR Honda has convinced Red Bull to change to Honda in 2019 then STR will get even more development bits in preparation for the RB15 and STR14.

SPOT ON

I'm missing a point? Seriously guys?
I said in my post that TR chassis IS NOT DESIGNED for Honda engine. (when signing deal last year they were already to late in development to start everyting over)
I said that chassis is REWORKED to fit Honda engine - Big big difference.
Techman quote only my first statement and clearly wrote:

TR chassis was NOT designed around Honda engine!!!!

IT IS here is a link honda ...

I don't have cristal ball to read your minds, only what you write here.

[Ground Effect]

For 2018 both TR and McLaren HAD to listen EM because there was no time to implement any ideas they might have.

This was your quote. what i am trying to say here is honda made more requests and were in control according to the link i posted when it came to integrating the engine with the chassis. and it should always be like that. however it was not the case with mclaren, even though they might have taken some consideration to renaults cooling requirement request , they still went ahead with their useless size zero concept and it was also mentioned by boullier. saying the size zero concept is carried over to this year and its an evolution and no compromise on their chassis. its easy to see that the mclaren looks very similar to the it 2017 car. tiny air inlet and others. personally in hot weather i have feeling their car will have more problems and remember even though they did complete 110 laps it was in cold climate and in short burst of laps. just imagine with track temperature around 35 doing 60 odd laps continuously. i just cant wait to this season to start. size zero problems

I know this has been debated over and over again, but according to Eric and Hasegawa San Mclaren never imposed the size zero concept. They may have requested for it, but never imposed it

http://en.f1i.com/news/43852-honda-not- ... laren.html

[Manoah2u]

good god, yet another bunch of poop slinging posts that talk about Mclaren, and Honda, in the TORO ROSSO thread.
when does it end?

[aral]

I fully agree and it seems ridiculous that there are some who are polluting the STR thread with continual McLaren rants. A number of posts have been removed and I would ask posters to respect the topic of the thread. McLaren posts will be removed.

[Talisman]

Why would they buy STR, makes no sense at all.

They've already implied that they are either pulling out of F1 or becoming a full works outfit. It's hard to tell right now, but the initial signs are that they may have finally cracked the code on the PU, so staying in F1 is more likely than pulling out. STR is the logical choice for a purchase, probably with Red Bull sponsorship.

They did in the past and finished Honda out of F1. I don't think they will buy Toro Rosso. or at least in near future.

1. Because Redbull will not sponsor Honda team it would go against their main team RB as a trademark
2. You have already two teams working well economically and independently so why to buy one of them and restart a business that already is working. Teams are sold when are too small or economically not worth it. Toro Rosso has always been design to bring money to the main team via their young drivers academy. Young drivers bring sponsors from their original home countries mainly and it works because the prospects of fininishing on the main team.
3. At the moment Honda image have been damage by their past 3 years so buying the team would be to early to attract investment and sponsors to their own team and they will have to invest huge amounts that can be use now on developing the engine
4. You can have two team working for the same interest, make one of them successful by using one as test, driver academy and engine development.

I don't think Honda will buy STR either for several reasons.

Firstly Honda has plenty of experience buying up midfield teams and trying to build them up. It doesn't work and its very expensive. Also if Honda buys a team then withdraws at short notice the bill they'll have to pay Liberty will be immense. Apparently the fees they had to pay Bernie for pulling out of the Concorde agreement last time round were absolutely eyewatering.

Secondly if they were to buy one STR would not be it, split over two countries with the main part in Italy where they will forever be the 'other' Italian team and not the one Italian talent will want to work at.

Thirdly STR is loss-making for Red Bull and has been forever unlike the main team which gets by on prize money and sponsorship. Honda would be obliged to fill in the funding shortfall from day one which Red Bull currently pays for.

Fourthly an RBR supply is at this moment highly possible and surely the ideal objective. I can't see Honda taking any decisions re: supply until Red Bull make a call either way later this year.

[godlameroso]

The way the Honda engine is installed robs a little space in the diffuser, I'm guessing that central section will slim down as the season progresses, along with the diffuser design.

[godlameroso]

As you can see the central area of the diffuser behind the step plane is very svelte on the Ferrari.

On the Toro Rosso this area is wider and gives less room for the diffuser.

[HPD]

"I think what we've found with the Honda engine installation is that it's fundamentally different to Renault's -- there's no commonality possibilities there really," Key said. "The chassis design is obviously different, the gearbox is different as well. It's all been done by us in that respect.

"The other thing is that it's a works deal, it's a proper combined effort. There's all the dyno testing, R&D rig testing, joint-development and design work, design work for next year is already underway so all of that is very unique to our relationship to.

"It's a heavy responsibility all that actually, we're looking forward to it, it's a very positive pressure but it's a big responsibility to provide the level that Honda need to progress as well with the team they're working with. It's less opportunity for commonality definitely."

The Honda works deal has offered Toro Rosso extra resources, but Key said it has also come with extra workload that his team had never previously experienced as an engine customer.

"You kind of dream of all of this stuff and then when it all arrives on your doorstep you're like, 'Jesus there's an awful lot to do here!' We began rig testing of certain engine relating systems on the chassis side back in November. We were dyno testing the gearbox in December and have been ever since, both in Milton Keynes initially and Japan as well, so we've got gearboxes in Japan and Milton Keynes too.

"We've been able to do some cooling system tests and so on. That's where that pressure comes. It's when you've not done that in the past, while it's a great opportunity to do it it also puts the team under that added pressure of substantially more parts to manufacture, engineering support, not in Italy but around Europe or in Japan.

"There's quite a bit of added workload for that but it's all for good reasons and certainly Honda needs to have that close relationship with the team to see through those aspects. Gearbox is fundamental for the engine supplier, for example."
http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/22641 ... sibilities

[jagunx51]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/890836/1/k ... toro-rosso

Toro Rosso technical chief James Key is not concerned about no longer being Honda's exclusive Formula 1 power unit partner in 2019 should Red Bull strike an engine deal, believing it can only be a good thing for the B-team.

Toro Rosso picked up works engine support from Honda for 2018 following the Japanese manufacturer's split from McLaren, with the deal appearing to open the door for a possible deal between its senior team, Red Bull, and Honda for next season.

Red Bull F1 chief Christian Horner confirmed the team was keeping its options open for the future and would be paying close attention to how Honda fared with Toro Rosso through 2018, but has until May to give existing engine partner Renault a decision for next season.

Although Toro Rosso would lose its exclusive works backing and become the secondary partner were the larger Red Bull operation to receive Honda support, Key feels it would only act as a boost to the team.

"What Red Bull Racing do is ultimately their decision in the end, but if we can share an engine supplier, it would be very good," Key said.


"I think it’s an opportunity to work closer together on certain aspects, which would be good for both teams. So in that respect I have no issues with it.

"We have a separate deal to whatever Red Bull would have. It’s not a combined contract, it’s an STR contract for three years as a works deal.

"I think if Red Bull came onboard, it could only be added to that for us."

[techman]

nice more engine data if it becomes a reality .

[HPD]

nice more engine data if it becomes a reality .

And data transfer by the chassis

[Soichiro]

nice more engine data if it becomes a reality .

And data transfer by the chassis

I quietly hope that RBR will transfer "the knowledge" to STR in order to make it easier (at least for me) to compare Renault to Honda as the season progresses.

[HPD]

"It's gone really well. Performance-wise, we have some GPS tracers which we can overlay from our competitors and it looks ok," Brendon Hartley told Sky Sports.