2018 pre-season testing thread

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
AJI
AJI
27
Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Restomaniac wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:04
George-Jung wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 11:57
Regarding the smoke- didn’t the Merc’s had that too in previous years when they fired up their power unit?
That was normally oil sat at start up/idol. Never to this level and not during running/a race.
In 2014-2016 they could use so much oil that they made 2T karts look clean. Even at the start of 2017 they could run 28:1. The oil use restriction this year has halved that again... The implications are huge

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
0
Joined: 16 May 2016, 01:09
Location: Hull

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

AJI wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:46
Restomaniac wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:04
George-Jung wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 11:57
Regarding the smoke- didn’t the Merc’s had that too in previous years when they fired up their power unit?
That was normally oil sat at start up/idol. Never to this level and not during running/a race.
In 2014-2016 they could use so much oil that they made 2T karts look clean. Even at the start of 2017 they could run 28:1. The oil use restriction this year has halved that again... The implications are huge
Indeed an NOW Ferrari is blowing oil out of the back. Makes no sense does it.

marvin78
marvin78
4
Joined: 21 Feb 2016, 09:33

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Restomaniac wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:12
marvin78 wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:09
Yeah but with Mercedes everything is a feature not a bug ;)
Yes because the tiny amount of smoke at certain times from the Mercedes PU is exactly the same as what the Ferrari PU is doing currently. :wtf:

I think we all remember the press being able to say 'Oh look smoke, a Mercedes PU must have started'...........Don't we?
You saw the smiley? You guys take everything around F1 so damn seriously. I would understand that, if we had anywhere near to all the facts but as we can't even know a little, I don't. The smoke even could be a joke and we would never know.

User avatar
Phil
66
Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Auto-Motor-und-Sport's (AMuS) analysis of Winter Testing is in, and clears up a little why perhaps Ferrari could be finding themselves in position 3.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ite-woche/

Translation by me:

We analyzed the two testing weeks in Barcelona and come to the following conclusion:

1.) Mercedes
2.) Red Bull-Renault
3.) Ferrari
4.) HaasF1-Ferrari
5.) Renault
6.) Toro Rosso-Honda
7.) McLaren-Renault
8.) Force India-Mercedes
9.) Williams-Mercedes
10.) Sauber-Ferrari

Mercedes
Mercedes didn't attempt any qualy runs. They only stood at the top of the timesheets on day 4. The championship wining team didn't even bring hyperssoft tires to the winter-test. And the Mercedes never did any low fuel runs. In the standings over the 8 winter testing days, the best times by Hamilton and Bottas were for rank 8 and 10. Hamilton was with a timed-best of 1:18.400 1.3 seconds slower than the best time Ferrari did. Despite this, it looks like Mercedes will be heading to Melbourne as clear favorites. The race simulations are the true indicator of performance and here Bottas and Hamilton were around a second per lap quicker than their competitors under similar conditions.

Bottes tried to downplay expectations a little: "We are surely not a second quicker than the rest. We completed our testing program already on day 7, so day 8 was a bonus for us. It wouldn't have made any sense to compete for best-times. We know what our car is capable of.". Lewis explained that he couldn't find the erratic behaviour from last years car. "But we are still getting to learn the traits of this new car. Things worked great in Barcelona, but it doesn't have to mean this will apply to other tracks too".

The minor worry that the drivers and engineers will take from Barcelona is the blistering of the rear tires. Bottas said: "We didn't solve the problem, but we were able to minimise it. We believe that the others will have had similar problems when attacking with these softer tires on this circuit."


Red-Bull
Similar like Mercedes, Redbull didn't join in with competing for best times. Despite this, we see last years 3rd best team at this time as the team in position 2. GPS-Data shows that the RB14 is as quick as the Mercedes in the corners. It all depends now how much power Renault can still unleash with their engine. For the last two test-days, Renault unlocked some performance of their engine with another identical improvement expected for Melbourne, if Renault deems it reliable enough. The turbo-damage that McLaren suffered on the last day of testing could mean that this improvement may be delayed to a later point though.

RedBull chief Helmut Marko believes: "We have the better chassis than Mercedes. The difference lies in the engine". Technical-chief Adrian Newey suspects that the competition still burns way more oil than Renault. "Our oil usage over 100km is at 0.1l. Both Mercedes and Ferrari use the limit at 0.6l." How big the gap is to the best is difficult to assess. Some seem to think between 3 and 5 tenths per lap. In the long runs (race sim), RedBull were driving at a similar pace to Ferrari, which would be quite a bit off what Mercedes was showing too. Renault was also saving fuel. More than Mercedes but less than Ferrari. The problem could reoccur in Melbourne.


Ferrari
Ferrari achieved the best time on 4 testing days. Sebastian Vettel marked the best time with a 1:17.182. Ferrari also worked flawless and did 849 laps without any big issues. Despite all this, there was little reason to be euphoric. Vettels best time is not worth much if Mercedes had attempted to break it. We suspect that even RedBull could have broken it. Even Ferrari customer Haas was only 2 tenths slower. That isn't enough if you want to be world champions. Vettel concluded the two weeks of testing with "There are still some riddles that we need to understand". The wording is rather worrying, as it would imply they still need to understand some issues and are poking around in the dark.

According to GPS-data, the Ferrari are especially losing time in the corners. Track side observers saw that the Ferrari is inclined to lock up under breaking and that the drivers often used strange driving lines. Ex-driver Pedro de la Rosa concluded after observing T1, T2 and T3 that "Mercedes and RedBull corner very well and more stable than the Ferrari". But what could be the issue with the SF71H? Is it the 7cm longer wheelbase? The HaasF1 has that too. Maybe Ferrari traded-off some aerodynamic efficiency for a bit less drag and a higher top-speed. One of the goals from last year was that they wanted to be more competitive at the high-speed tracks. That wouldn't be ideal for a track like Barcelona which is high downforce and which might explain some of their issues.


Haas F1 (shortened)
The American Ferrari team may be the big surprise in 2018. Both Renault and Mclaren see Haas in position 4 currently. Chief Günther Steiner is careful: "Position 4 would be an optimistic conclusion". Magnuses quoted "The balance of the car is very good. It's easy to drive and to set-up".


Renault (shortened)
After a very good end to the first week Renault already saw itself in position 4. Meanwhile, they conclude that HaasF1 and McLaren look quite good. Hulkenberg confirmed this by saying that he felt the balance was missing in the second testing week. Some of the issues are related to spare parts. Renault hopes to make this up with a better development rate [than Haas].


McLaren (shortened)
The quick laps by Alonso on the last day of testing came as a big positive surprise and puts them probably ahead of Torro-Rosso. The speed is there. Even if the car was loaded with 20kg of fuel, you still need to do those times. But reliability could still be a concern. The car stopped on track 6 times. Eric Boullier conceded that they gave their aerodynamicists too much freedom. "The whole concept evolves around being able to optimize our aerodynamic platform. It could well be that we went a bit over the limit here and there. But we have a lot of catching up to do and therefore, we needed to take a few risks".


Torro-Rosso-Honda (shortened)
Torro Rosso achieved over 8 days 819 laps or 3812 km. That is very respectabkle and almost as good as Ferrari. Apparently Honda used 3 different engine specifications in the first week to find the best one. That one was then used in week 2. It stayed in the car for the entire 2nd week and is proof that Honda has gotten better. Even the performance of the engine seems to be there, reaching top-speeds of 324kmh. At the moment, Torro-Rosso may even look like a serious contender for position 4.



DISCLAIMER: Sorry for the rough translation in parts. Tried to smooth it out a bit, but some of the stuff or how the german article is written are a bit difficult to translate word-for-word. And I am have run out of time to do the other teams, but I hope I covered the most interesting aspects of the top 6 teams. Ugh, my fingers hurt now. :oops: :oops: :oops:
Last edited by Phil on 10 Mar 2018, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
0
Joined: 16 May 2016, 01:09
Location: Hull

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

marvin78 wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 13:17
Restomaniac wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:12
marvin78 wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:09
Yeah but with Mercedes everything is a feature not a bug ;)
Yes because the tiny amount of smoke at certain times from the Mercedes PU is exactly the same as what the Ferrari PU is doing currently. :wtf:

I think we all remember the press being able to say 'Oh look smoke, a Mercedes PU must have started'...........Don't we?
You saw the smiley? You guys take everything around F1 so damn seriously. I would understand that, if we had anywhere near to all the facts but as we can't even know a little, I don't. The smoke even could be a joke and we would never know.
It isn't a joke though. Nobody wants another Mercedes walkover. It's looking possible for it to be the case and that is many things but funny isn't one of them.

But we will know inside of 2 weeks. If Ferrari have taken the time and resources to manufacture a part or tune their car to create plumes of smoke for a joke then they haven't taken their jobs very seriously.

User avatar
Chuckjr
38
Joined: 24 Feb 2012, 08:34
Location: USA

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

If its another joke of a season with only two guys competing for the championship, I will be absolutely crushed.

I have not heard much concern about the blistering of the Merc tires, yet I have seen pictures of rear tires coming off the Merc that looked like swiss cheese gone wrong. Is this really not a concern about them, or could it be a chink in the armor? The Ferrari tires seemed to be much much better by comparison.
Watching F1 since 1986.

the EDGE
the EDGE
67
Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 18:31
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Chuckjr wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 13:30
If its another joke of a season with only two guys competing for the championship, I will be absolutely crushed.
I don’t understand that, there’s plenty of battles up and down the field to be had. Why does it just matter who wins the race, each battle is just as exciting as the war it’s self

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Thank you @Phil

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
0
Joined: 16 May 2016, 01:09
Location: Hull

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Chuckjr wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 13:30
If its another joke of a season with only two guys competing for the championship, I will be absolutely crushed.

I have not heard much concern about the blistering of the Merc tires, yet I have seen pictures of rear tires coming off the Merc that looked like swiss cheese gone wrong. Is this really not a concern about them, or could it be a chink in the armor? The Ferrari tires seemed to be much much better by comparison.
It would be more of a concern if Mercedes hadn't been deliberately wheelspinning the rears at times in the Pitlane. At one point they would do a Pitlane drive through just so they could light the rears up. A team wouldn't be doing that if they had worries over tyre wear.
Last edited by Restomaniac on 10 Mar 2018, 14:15, edited 1 time in total.

Bill_Kar
Bill_Kar
1
Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 09:38

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Mr Brooksy wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 08:09
foxmulder_ms wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 07:57
Seriously though, williams looks terrible. I wonder whether it is the drivers or the car...

It's also been said that the car isn't working the softer tires well either... And is acting a bit of a 'diva'.
The W08 is strong with this one.

trinidefender
trinidefender
317
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

For all those trying to compare times to last year or any other previous year please take into account 2 major changes that are independent of the cars. The surface of the track was redone. Can't remember where I heard this but I believe it was fairly reliable that the new surface would decrease lap times by approximately 2 seconds. Secondly that Pirelli brought new softer compound tyres. Does anyone have any official word from Pirelli or any teams as to how much quicker the new compounds are?

giantfan10
giantfan10
27
Joined: 27 Nov 2014, 18:05
Location: USA

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

Restomaniac wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 09:43
Vettelswonmeover wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 09:26
JPBD1990 wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 08:55


Again I just don’t understand how people are making the assessment that redbull is ahead of Ferrari. Even excluding Verstappen’s spin, the Ferrari was consistently lapping faster. Now the new rumour is they had to drive to a delta to save fuel - but were still faster than redbull. Something just isn’t adding up... it’s been a weird preseason.
There are two factors at work in this assessment of RB being ahead of Ferrari. 1) Ferrari driving to a delta to save fuel & 2) Renault running their power units turned down. Ferrari is having issues in fuel consumption. The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix. Renault too will run the PU turned down for quite a few months till they get their own ERS. However, RB will have a great upgrade package for Australia. Ferrari I'm not so sure. Many media guys (reliable ones) are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake. This again would need time to find a fix. RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so. Hence, the consensus is RB is ahead of Ferrari. I hope not but i am pretty convinced about this.
I'm not sure it's the high rake they are struggling with but the longer wheelbase. When I saw what they had done I was surprised. Why give up your best advantage on some tracks?

Have they just conceded them to RB? Are they now a jack of all trades but master of none? This of course before we even talk about the smoke bellowing out of the back of all the Ferrari engines which can never be a good thing.

On that point I'd like to know what the FIA think about that. Consistently blowing oil out of the back of the car possibly dumping in on the track/visors can't be good.
a few things i need to correct.
the length of the Ferrai had ZERO to do with their dominance at slow speed high downforce circuits and everything to do with being able to produce more downforce than mercedes when the cars were in high downforce config.
Mercedes had an advantage last year in high speed corners because of their longer floor which produces more downforce with next to no drag versus the Ferraris shorter floor which produced less downforce which forced ferrari to just have to accept that...... lengthening their floor was the only option to be truly competitive on high speed circuits....we shall soon see if they can still produce more downforce in high downforce config. i dont see any reason why they wouldnt.
consistently blowing oil out of the back of the car is a result of rules put in place by the FIA :
"The FIA ​​has rewritten Article 20 of the Technical Regulations introducing some important limitations.the FIA ​​has decided that oil that is present in the crankcase in the Power Units for 2018 must be vented into the atmosphere .

The Ferrai solutionImage

the mercedes solutionImage

all cars will be spitting oil at some point during the race not just ferrari..for whatever reason the Ferrari at startup and in certain situation makes its vent obvious.. Ferrari says its no issue... i will take their word based on their reliability in testing.

User avatar
GPR-A duplicate2
64
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 09:00

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

LM10 wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:26
The hybrid era seems to have suited Mercedes the most. The experience on that topic which they had started to gain already years before 2014 might have helped them most among the teams. Also efficient engines are something Mercedes is known for generally. I don't know if this makes sense though, just some amateurish thoughts. :)
How Mercedes made F1’s best hybrid engine
Andy Cowell, on 18 Mar 2016 wrote:Mercedes had no experience with a turbo – after all, the last time they were used in F1 pre-dated the team – so they relied on knowledge from elsewhere in the Daimler company. Although Mercedes uses turbos in its road cars, it was Daimler’s truck division that proved the most useful to Cowell and his team: the huge amounts of power involved in the F1 engine meant they were a better fit.

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
0
Joined: 16 May 2016, 01:09
Location: Hull

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

GPR-A wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 14:34
LM10 wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 12:26
The hybrid era seems to have suited Mercedes the most. The experience on that topic which they had started to gain already years before 2014 might have helped them most among the teams. Also efficient engines are something Mercedes is known for generally. I don't know if this makes sense though, just some amateurish thoughts. :)
How Mercedes made F1’s best hybrid engine
Andy Cowell, on 18 Mar 2016 wrote:Mercedes had no experience with a turbo – after all, the last time they were used in F1 pre-dated the team – so they relied on knowledge from elsewhere in the Daimler company. Although Mercedes uses turbos in its road cars, it was Daimler’s truck division that proved the most useful to Cowell and his team: the huge amounts of power involved in the F1 engine meant they were a better fit.
Indeed. Mercedes trucks run forever and have tons of power. Thinking about it Ferrari, Renault and Honda don't have the sheer amount long term experience of dealing with the hugely powerful turbo engines that Mercedes do.

User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... n-f1-tests

From the pen/keyboard of Mr Mark Hughes, it's worth a read. Waiting for James Allen's analysis.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie