2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[makecry]

Manor always had very high top speed,

its a Mercedes PU after all

You left out the crucial part, quoted an out of context statement which kinda changes the meaning of what was said but it's bordering on off topic so i wont comment further.

[Saxmansaxman]

If you remove Fernando's anomalous lap you can see the middle order behind the big 3 pretty clearly I believe in that link I posted above.

Renault, Haas, Toro Rosso, Mclaren (using vandoorne's lap), force india, williams and sauber.

Just out of curiosity, why would you remove Fernando's time, and what makes it anomalous?

It's faster than he would like.

Haha. Is this the lap where FA cut the chicane?

[makecry]

Just out of curiosity, why would you remove Fernando's time, and what makes it anomalous?

It's faster than he would like.

Haha. Is this the lap where FA cut the chicane?

No that was 16.7 and wasn't counted,before he cut the chicane, he was almost 3/10ths up on his fastest lap which IIRC was 17.7 or so.

[etusch]

What exactly was the anomaly that Honda found at the last day of testing?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2018 ... 2-rcg-moto

According to some insiders,the failure they suffered in the last day of testing is not a big problem.

Good to see that

[GhostF1]

It is all looking good for this season, but let's remember, James Key has already said the STR13 was not fully optimised for the Honda PU and that he is more excited for next years car, where they can employ all the "new and exciting" ideas they have come up with now they have the Honda PU. That sounds great, but it also has a subtext of "this years car isn't a game changer".

This year, I'm expecting strides from Honda over the course of the season, next year I reckon the TR chassis will see some big changes and a more cohesive car.

Red Bull? I think we'd be mad to assume they aren't engineering ideas to integrate the Honda PU right now or have a plan throughout the season.

I'm quietly optimistic for STR this season, but I'm not going to go as far to say they'll be smashing McLaren from race 1. Let's give them time. Second half of the season I think we'll see a real maturity take place, especially with STR providing great development room for Honda.

[techman]

yes i think mid season is when i see some better improvement from str

[Talisman]

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... ssion=true

Interesting article on this journalists views re testing. He reckons several teams in their race simulations were backing off especially at the end of the last stint suggesting fuel saving. He points out that STR in particular can’t maintain their pace suggesting both fuel saving and poor tyre degradation with some quotes from the drivers talking about the latter.

Interestingly he also says Force India has poor one lap pace but very good race simulation pace so if their Melbourne upgrade works should be very competitive and he also believes Haas has genuine pace too.

[carisi2k]

It is all looking good for this season, but let's remember, James Key has already said the STR13 was not fully optimised for the Honda PU and that he is more excited for next years car, where they can employ all the "new and exciting" ideas they have come up with now they have the Honda PU. That sounds great, but it also has a subtext of "this years car isn't a game changer".

This year, I'm expecting strides from Honda over the course of the season, next year I reckon the TR chassis will see some big changes and a more cohesive car.

Red Bull? I think we'd be mad to assume they aren't engineering ideas to integrate the Honda PU right now or have a plan throughout the season.

I'm quietly optimistic for STR this season, but I'm not going to go as far to say they'll be smashing McLaren from race 1. Let's give them time. Second half of the season I think we'll see a real maturity take place, especially with STR providing great development room for Honda.

A package doesn't need to be fully optimised for a new manufacturer to be fast. Brawn GP of 2009 and the Benetton Renault of 1995 are perfect examples of that.

The reason why Fernando's lap doesn't count is because it was clearly a glory lap (low fuel and probably underweight) aimed to entice sponsors. In any case we will see tomorrow but if it has any resemblance to the other times then somehow Mclaren with as little running with the Renault engine and after all the problems they had in testing are somehow miraculously as fast as Red Bull and faster then Renault.

[carisi2k]

I am not stating the STR will be a championship calibre car like the B195 or the Brawn but I do think it is in decent shape in the midfield and the engine power is the equal of the Renault. The Renault seems to have better fuel economy going for it due to better energy recovery then the Honda and that is probably the area that Honda might be lacking more so then outright power.

[makecry]

I am not stating the STR will be a championship calibre car like the B195 or the Brawn but I do think it is in decent shape in the midfield and the engine power is the equal of the Renault. The Renault seems to have better fuel economy going for it due to better energy recovery then the Honda and that is probably the area that Honda might be lacking more so then outright power.

How is that even possible when even James Key has said they aim to catch Renault this season?

But yes, even if the peak output gap is not very big , the fuel efficiency was horrible last year, so was ERS , especially the MGU-H and that still lags. Last year, McLaren was on average best of the rest in last few races but their race pace greatly suffered,Honda needs to figure that out because efficiency is the key.

[techman]

But yes, even if the peak output gap is not very big , the fuel efficiency was horrible last year, so was ERS , especially the MGU-H and that still lags. Last year, McLaren was on average best of the rest in last few races but their race pace greatly suffered,Honda needs to figure that out because efficiency is the key.

since you brought up mclaren. fuel efficiency is affected if you are running high drag. thats a part of the problem, not to say honda was the most fuel efficient and if you look at mclaren even with a renault are still bottom of the speed traps. doesnt its say anything to you. its not as efficient as a redbull. more drag less fuel efficiency. since this is a toro rosso thread. i am hoping they get last year redbull chassis modified. this toro rosso is still lacking to redbull efficiency.

[makecry]

But yes, even if the peak output gap is not very big , the fuel efficiency was horrible last year, so was ERS , especially the MGU-H and that still lags. Last year, McLaren was on average best of the rest in last few races but their race pace greatly suffered,Honda needs to figure that out because efficiency is the key.

since you brought up mclaren. fuel efficiency is affected if you are running high drag. thats a part of the problem, not to say honda was the most fuel efficient and if you look at mclaren even with a renault are still bottom of the speed traps. doesnt its say anything to you. its not as efficient as a redbull. more drag less fuel efficiency. since this is a toro rosso thread. i am hoping they get last year redbull chassis modified. this toro rosso is still lacking to redbull efficiency.

It flew right past you because you are always hell bent on pushing the "draggy mclaren chassis" narrative even though I see what you are trying to imply here but it's not going to be as of a factor as you are implying. . A fuel efficient engine + draggy chassis (mercedes' is quite draggy with all the million little winglets and by the virtue of running very high downforce) will not be as bad as a fuel hungry + low drag car.

[cyro_666]

But yes, even if the peak output gap is not very big , the fuel efficiency was horrible last year, so was ERS , especially the MGU-H and that still lags. Last year, McLaren was on average best of the rest in last few races but their race pace greatly suffered,Honda needs to figure that out because efficiency is the key.

since you brought up mclaren. fuel efficiency is affected if you are running high drag. thats a part of the problem, not to say honda was the most fuel efficient and if you look at mclaren even with a renault are still bottom of the speed traps. doesnt its say anything to you. its not as efficient as a redbull. more drag less fuel efficiency. since this is a toro rosso thread. i am hoping they get last year redbull chassis modified. this toro rosso is still lacking to redbull efficiency.

Just to give my 2 cents. They can't use Red Bull designed stuff because of the Concorde Agreement. Essentially, they have to develop the car themselves. Think of it - if STR were using RB parts, they would have been much closer to Red Bull in the standings.

[etusch]

If mercedes chassis is draggy that mean they are increadibly good on efficiency because aero makes very big difference on consumption

[techman]

It flew right past you because you are always hell bent on pushing the "draggy mclaren chassis" narrative even though I see what you are trying to imply here but it's not going to be as of a factor as you are implying. . A fuel efficient engine + draggy chassis (mercedes' is quite draggy with all the million little winglets and by the virtue of running very high downforce) will not be as bad as a fuel hungry + low drag car.

bit off topic
well what i am saying is a mclaren renault fuel efficiency is lower than a redbull renault even with the same engine. Reason . mclaren downforce gained is more drag or dirty downforce and redbull downforce is efficient. even the top speed tell a story here. redbull is the best model as it mainly running on efficient downforce unlike mclaren. and toro rosso is not at redbull efficiency nor there is any other team at the moment.