2018 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, April 6-8

[TAG]

You talking to yourself again George ?

I do think I am not qualified to be one.

Because I would have handed Hamilton a penalty, which would be incorrect- due to the fact it was a racing incident.

You? You would have handed Alonso 3 of Hamilton's championships.

[Sieper]

Look, what you can do in a situation like this, when you are getting squeezed, like Hamilton was, Have a look at f.e. Brazil 2016 Verstappens first try at Vettel, Seb Squeezes Max and Max pulls out, only to overtake him a few corners later and repaying the favor. Hamilton could have done just the same. Squeeze back (later) when you have the chance if you are the squeezeeee now, much preferable over a racing incident imho.

[George-Jung]

You talking to yourself again George ?

I do think I am not qualified to be one.

Because I would have handed Hamilton a penalty, which would be incorrect- due to the fact it was a racing incident.

You? You would have handed Alonso 3 of Hamilton's championships.

Mehhhh.. 2 would be enough.

[Laserguru]

This was the point of contact, I would hardly say Hamilton had plenty of space on the left, his front wheel was on the white line! And looking at the line max was taking, he was coming over more to the left at that point, he was straightening out his car. It wasnt Hamilton moving right.

https://i.imgur.com/z6Fi3mf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/68cCatK.jpg

For sure Hamilton didn’t gave an inch.. you are allowed to cross the with line with two wheels.. so no harm in doing that right there..

But hé, ifs and buts..

At least it has set the tone for the remainder of the season- who’s going to ‘swallow’ next time?

Good point about the two wheels thing. It’d be interesting to hear what the actual definition of leaving a cars width is. Is it to the edge of the track? Or beyond? It kind of has to be to the white line surely? Otherwise could you imagine how dangerous it could be on a high speed part of the track, you can push them off beyond the white line and onto the grass/Astro?

I also think there is an element of Hamilton making sure Verstappen knows he’s not going to be bullied by him. One wonders if he’ll try such a move again.

I had the same question. I get the impression that you are ‘allowed’ to force another car with 2 wheels over the white line if there is sufficient run-off, the pitlane or sufficient space on the curbs, astro etc and there is no danger. The defensive move by HAM on the straight before turn 1 did force VER with high speed over the pitlane exit line but was not even considered. So there is a lot tolerated with that respect. The one cars widht applies to the one car, the two wheels to the other. So if one driver is in breach, the other is allowed to go almost another car’s width further. Would be interesting to know how we should understand the combination of these two rules and when which rules prevelates.

[mrluke]

Max was trying to make a point by squeezing Hamilton, likewise Hamilton was making a point by not diving out of the way.

Next time Max will take a bit more care.

[dans79]

Would be interesting to know how we should understand the combination of these two rules and when which rules prevelates.

Good luck with that, the FIA and Charlie have so bastardized and bent the sporting regulations under the guise of "not disturbing the spectacle" or "effecting the outcome of the race" that they are almost mealiness now.

The out come of an incident is now heavily dependent on the following in order of priority:

1. who the drivers are and where they stand in the WDC
2. who the drivers drive for and where the team stands in the WCC
3. how much a ruling will effect the outcome of the race
4. who the stewards are
5. how blatant the offense was

Baku last year shows how completely hosed the penitently process is.

[epo]

Max was trying to make a point by squeezing Hamilton, likewise Hamilton was making a point by not diving out of the way.

Next time Max will take a bit more care.

Good point, both have a big ego and want to show you can't pass me I'm better then you simple as that, both could have avoided the incident. Tbh I don't expect any different behaviour next races unless Hamilton is in a championship lead which he has to defend. Most likely Vettel had done the same, they all want to win and show their strength.

[andartop]

Would be interesting to know how we should understand the combination of these two rules and when which rules prevelates.

Good luck with that, the FIA and Charlie have so bastardized and bent the sporting regulations under the guise of "not disturbing the spectacle" or "effecting the outcome of the race" that they are almost mealiness now.

The out come of an incident is now heavily dependent on the following in order of priority:

1. who the drivers are and where they stand in the WDC
2. who the drivers drive for and where the team stands in the WCC
3. how much a ruling will effect the outcome of the race
4. who the stewards are
5. how blatant the offense was

Baku last year shows how completely hosed the penitently process is.

Totally agree, the only reason we have endless pages of comments after almost every race on whose fault x incident was and why x driver should or shouldn't have been penalised is because of the FIA's inconsistencies in applying the rules and variable interpretations of what is allowed and what isn't. By selectively allowing some drivers under some circumstances get away with it while penalising others under very similar (if not identical) situations we now have no idea whatsoever how much 'squeezing off the track' is too much. IMHO Messrs Verstappen, Hamilton, Vettel, Rosberg et al are all equally guilty/innocent of the same crime, so I guess what goes around comes around. Either forbid squeezing another driver off track under all circumstances or let them all go banzai and let luck decide the outcome, labelling such incidents as 'racing incidents'. It's been a long time since F1 has failed to fulfil basic criteria for being classified as a 'sport' anyway, so let's go all WWE and enjoy the show.

[Laserguru]

Would be interesting to know how we should understand the combination of these two rules and when which rules prevelates.

Good luck with that, the FIA and Charlie have so bastardized and bent the sporting regulations under the guise of "not disturbing the spectacle" or "effecting the outcome of the race" that they are almost mealiness now.

The out come of an incident is now heavily dependent on the following in order of priority:

1. who the drivers are and where they stand in the WDC
2. who the drivers drive for and where the team stands in the WCC
3. how much a ruling will effect the outcome of the race
4. who the stewards are
5. how blatant the offense was

Baku last year shows how completely hosed the penitently process is.

It's been a long time since F1 has failed to fulfil basic criteria for being classified as a 'sport' anyway, so let's go all WWE and enjoy the show.

Not to forget: enjoy the technology! All good things come in threes: sport/show/tech.

[Just_a_fan]

Max was trying to make a point by squeezing Hamilton, likewise Hamilton was making a point by not diving out of the way.

Next time Max will take a bit more care.

Senna and Schuie both had a reputation for being hard to pass racers. Both used a fair bit of elbow to take and defend. Then as they progressed in F1 other drivers would see it was them and know that shutting the door was likely to be a bad idea. Both ended up being good in traffic but partly it was because the traffic was "scared" of them. I think Max is trying to take that route. Sadly for him, the likes of Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso are past masters at it and won't be bullied. Max will have to figure out another way with them.

[Sieper]

Max is not per se a bully, this is just racing, again watch the ‘16 brazil race f.e. Vettel squeezes Verstappen on his first attempts but he simply swallows it, that is what racing is. A few turns later he throws a fake move and then makes it stick when Vettel defends the fakey. If you get squeezed so be it, you got outmanouvred.

But also racing incidents (or even intentional not giving in) are part of the game. I don’t think Verstappen is intimidated in the slightest by Hamilton being willing to risk it all with not accepting he got squeezed.

[iotar__]

Just when you thought F1 can't be a bigger farce. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13533 ... g-bodywork "Fia concerned about cars losing bodywork", Haas to be precise.

Yep those falling parts can be dangerous, they can fly and hit a Ferrari mechanic lying in the pits with broken limbs after CHARLIE WHITING'S APPROVED SAFE RELEASE (TM) with no pentalties, break some more limbs, gouge an eye or something.

It comes as a no surprise that FIA wasn't concerned with parts falling off Verstappen's Red Bull in Australia. For 3 reasons: 1. special Verstappen treatment 2. Special Red Bull treatment 3. They didn't exist. No concerns about safety of overtaking under yellows there either. Some uncompromising safety crusade it is .

[langedweil]

Hamilton could have done just the same. Squeeze back (later) when you have the chance if you are the squeezeeee now, much preferable over a racing incident imho.

I just think he didn’t want Verstappen ahead of him at almost all cost, because as soon as he is, it’s very hard for Lewis to pass him again. Especially on a circuit like Bahrein.
But as stated before by many, maybe indeed it is time we move on to China...

[dans79]

But also racing incidents (or even intentional not giving in) are part of the game. I don’t think Verstappen is intimidated in the slightest by Hamilton being willing to risk it all with not accepting he got squeezed.

I'm pretty sure at this point you don't know the difference between being squeezed and just having someone try and run you off track.

[Sieper]

I am pretty sure I do, This was a squeeze, Verstappen was far enough in front and at the exact moment Hamilton decided to make the extra turn-in there was still some room left (easily the 20cm needed) and f.e. the '17 start of the race in Hungary manouvre by Kimi on Max, that was running of the track. Which is also part of the game, especially on starts, but also on the first laps there is still some leniency in fighting, f.e. Magnussen also got pushed off track and he returned super wildly, all was deemed fine. Hamilton could have easily backed out here, instead he turned in on the critical moment, he made that decision, Verstappen already made his decision to squeeze, ergo, racing incident.

I think Hamilton thought his defensive manouvre on the straight was enough, when Verstappen still got through this was just a tad rich to him.