2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

[LM10]

Ferrari proved to be a fast car on all layouts and in all weather conditions.

Other than Australia (very slow) and China (beaten on race pace by Bottas)?

So Bottas beating Vettel means that Ferrari wasn't a fast car? Even you told yourself that Bottas probably was in the slower car.

I don't think it's because Mercedes evolved like Phoenix from the ashes.

As long as Ferrari smash past Mercedes it's fine (after both winter testing and Australia establilsh that Mercedes are faster) because 'tracks are different', but if Mercedes beat Ferrari (on a track they've been faster for a thousand laps on this season) it's has to be cheating?

What are you talking about? Ferrari never smashed past Mercedes on race pace. They just were slightly faster in races. On the other hand, Mercedes actually smashed past Ferrari today.

[Brenton]

Yeah, one of the early laps, Hamilton iirc did a second faster than everyone else. Now Mercedes looking like running away with it, almost certainly getting the WCC at least.

Wtf was stroll thinking, losing seconds on the VSC?

Interesting how those tens of millions of wing parts didn't make any difference in Verstappen performance. But a few inches difference and we'd all be talking about Verstappen crashing again. He got lucky. His recklessness is loathesome.

[Wynters]

So Bottas beating Vettel means that Ferrari wasn't a fast car? Even you told yourself that Bottas probably was in the slower car.

I did? I thought I'd pointed out several times that the Mercedes was faster in race trim earlier in the thread.

Or, perhaps, Ferrari were quickest in Quali and not the race which would suggest the 'quickest no matter what' idea isn't 100% accurate?

Sevach had suggested that the Ferrari was faster all the time, in every condition (as per an AMuS quote). I pointed out that the race pace in China strongly hinted that this wasn't the case otherwise how did Bottas pass Vettel on pure pace.

What are you talking about? Ferrari never smashed past Mercedes on race pace. They just were slightly faster in races. On the other hand, Mercedes actually smashed past Ferrari today.

You don't consider a swing of a second to be impressive? Because this is a similar swing, one that was predicted before the race based on the vast amount of running on this track earlier this year. If there was one track in the entire calendar that Mercedes were going to be quick on post-winter testing, it was going to be Barcelona. They've literally driven a thousand laps here this season.

You've indicated earlier that you think the swing to Ferrari after Australia was based on a number of different things. I've suggested that perhaps that same reasoning might apply here (and added to that Mercedes were faster here for the whole of winter testing). I find it odd that Ferrari finding some performance is fine (which it is) but if Mercedes find some performance, then apparently it's cheating.

We are going around in circles. I suggest we leave it here.

[TAG]

A 17 point lead for Vettel after Bahrain has swung to a 17 point deficit. I hope he can keep his head focused, he doesn't handle not winning well and then starts to creep into desperate territory. There's got to be so much pressure at Ferrari this year, knowing they've got "the" car.

This tire thing is all smoke, after this weekend reliability is what's worrisome.

Three French speaking Grand Prix coming in a row. Is that a record?

[giantfan10]

You just can't tell Ferrari got better by 9 tenths because they were 7 tenths slower in Australia and then 2 tenths faster in Bahrain. That's anything but serious.

You mean that tracks are different and that cars and knowledge evolve significantly between races? That's entirely my point.

Yes, tracks are different, but Barcelona is not that different from any of the previous tracks. It's a kind of a mix, if you want. Ferrari proved to be a fast car on all layouts and in all weather conditions. Today they were much slower than Mercedes. I don't think it's because Mercedes evolved like Phoenix from the ashes.

This! The mercedes fanboys would have you believe that Mercedes suddenly figured the tires out.
Mercedes and Red bull whined about tires in testing....is it rocket science now that in the actually Race Mercedes and Red bull are the 2 teams that benefitted the most from the new tire spec?

In these conditions with these tires the Ferrari ate up the tires and red bull and mercedes didnt...thats ALL this was...now we go back to the regular tire compounds...
Massive advantage gone.

[zeph]

Interesting how those tens of millions of wing parts didn't make any difference in Verstappen performance. But a few inches difference and we'd all be talking about Verstappen crashing again. He got lucky. His recklessness is loathesome.

To be fair, I don't think he was driving recklessly today. The first four races he was a bit of an unguided missile, but it seemed like he had learned his lesson at Baku.

[ringo]

I think first driver to have back to back Barcelona wins as well.

Missed that 1.

You missed it for a reason, its not true 98 99 & 00 The Flying Fin. Would have been 4 in a row if it wasn't for a breakdown while leading on the final lap.

Michael won it 4 years in row as well but i prefer Mika's hattrick as it was against Michael where as Michaels wins were against....... Rubens ?

p.s I thought you guys were better than this

Also just checked, Nige did it in 91 & 92

Apologies, i should have said in 14 years. I guess it has to do with the era. Yes the great Shumacher was the last driver with consecutive wins at this track. First in 14 is still a remarkable.

[foxmulder_ms]

Yes, tracks are different, but Barcelona is not that different from any of the previous tracks.

I don't remember cars doing a thousand laps of China?

Ferrari proved to be a fast car on all layouts and in all weather conditions.

Other than Australia (very slow) and China (beaten on race pace by Bottas)?

I don't think it's because Mercedes evolved like Phoenix from the ashes.

As long as Ferrari smash past Mercedes it's fine (after both winter testing and Australia establilsh that Mercedes are faster) because 'tracks are different', but if Mercedes beat Ferrari (on a track they've been faster for a thousand laps on this season) it's has to be cheating?

If it is cheating, I congratulate their R&D team to be able to specifically design a tire that is specifically good for Mercedes. That is the scientific achievement of last couple years in car tech.

[JPBD1990]

Yes, tracks are different, but Barcelona is not that different from any of the previous tracks.

I don't remember cars doing a thousand laps of China?

Ferrari proved to be a fast car on all layouts and in all weather conditions.

Other than Australia (very slow) and China (beaten on race pace by Bottas)?

I don't think it's because Mercedes evolved like Phoenix from the ashes.

As long as Ferrari smash past Mercedes it's fine (after both winter testing and Australia establilsh that Mercedes are faster) because 'tracks are different', but if Mercedes beat Ferrari (on a track they've been faster for a thousand laps on this season) it's has to be cheating?

If it is cheating, I congratulate their R&D team to be able to specifically design a tire that is specifically good for Mercedes. That is the scientific achievement of last couple years in car tech.

This is juvenile. It’s not cheating. However, to deny that the tyre was changed due to struggles of certain teams (Mercedes and redbull) is ignorant. I don’t believe the argument is that Mercedes is cheating, but politics in F1 is an undeniable reality. This tyre suited Mercedes more. That, too, is undeniable.

Ferrari have said they were not consulted about the change, they were informed. Of course you can argue that because it is Ferrari and they lost that they are salty or lying - or it is their objective reality.

The Ferrari car worked the original tyres better, as evidenced by the previous 3 races. The tyre here was different, and the car stopped working.

I’m (personally) not trying to say that the tyres were moved away from suiting Ferrari specifically - but they were moved towards suiting Mercedes. Now, Pirelli’s justification is sound. The original spec tyre may not have lasted the race (on certain cars) and certain teams complained. The tyres were changed accordingly. OF COURSE those changes suited those that complained.

So Mercedes are correct - many experienced this problem in testing, but Mercedes lobbied to have the tyre changed. The tyre was changed. It suited Mercedes. Go figure.

[Restomaniac]

I think first driver to have back to back Barcelona wins as well.

Missed that 1.

You missed it for a reason, its not true 98 99 & 00 The Flying Fin. Would have been 4 in a row if it wasn't for a breakdown while leading on the final lap.

Michael won it 4 years in row as well but i prefer Mika's hattrick as it was against Michael where as Michaels wins were against....... Rubens ?

p.s I thought you guys were better than this

Also just checked, Nige did it in 91 & 92

It did make me wonder I have to say.

[Gettingonabit]

............................but Mercedes lobbied to have the tyre changed.

Is there actually any real proof of this?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I don't remember cars doing a thousand laps of China?
Other than Australia (very slow) and China (beaten on race pace by Bottas)?
As long as Ferrari smash past Mercedes it's fine (after both winter testing and Australia establilsh that Mercedes are faster) because 'tracks are different', but if Mercedes beat Ferrari (on a track they've been faster for a thousand laps on this season) it's has to be cheating?

If it is cheating, I congratulate their R&D team to be able to specifically design a tire that is specifically good for Mercedes. That is the scientific achievement of last couple years in car tech.

This is juvenile. It’s not cheating. However, to deny that the tyre was changed due to struggles of certain teams (Mercedes and redbull) is ignorant. I don’t believe the argument is that Mercedes is cheating, but politics in F1 is an undeniable reality. This tyre suited Mercedes more. That, too, is undeniable.

Ferrari have said they were not consulted about the change, they were informed. Of course you can argue that because it is Ferrari and they lost that they are salty or lying - or it is their objective reality.

The Ferrari car worked the original tyres better, as evidenced by the previous 3 races. The tyre here was different, and the car stopped working.

I’m (personally) not trying to say that the tyres were moved away from suiting Ferrari specifically - but they were moved towards suiting Mercedes. Now, Pirelli’s justification is sound. The original spec tyre may not have lasted the race (on certain cars) and certain teams complained. The tyres were changed accordingly. OF COURSE those changes suited those that complained.

So Mercedes are correct - many experienced this problem in testing, but Mercedes lobbied to have the tyre changed. The tyre was changed. It suited Mercedes. Go figure.

[sAx]

On another note, Grosjean should get a race ban, period.

GPDA Rep raised removal of seat belts at end of race to wave at crowd as dangerous precedent in drivers briefing .....the wisdom of planting the right foot to send a car spinning off track, right back into the path of drivers blinded by the tyre smoke created will no doubt be raised!!!

[Wouter]

He was stuck behind one of the williams under VSC who was driving way too slowly

Ah, that makes sesne. Thanks.

That was not the reason. He made a mistake during the VSC and made a spin that cost him 7 seconds.

https://twitter.com/F1/status/995751894835343361

[TwanV]

He was stuck behind one of the williams under VSC who was driving way too slowly

Ah, that makes sesne. Thanks.

That was not the reason. He made a mistake during the VSC and made a spin that cost him 7 seconds.

https://twitter.com/F1/status/995751894835343361

+ losing 0.7 secs a lap in the last 10 laps of the soft-run + being slower on average on the medium-stint, even with the fastest laps in between. The RB14.5 seems to be rather hard to drive acc. Dan's comments.