This one. Look I'm not saying Vandoorne is faster than Alonso, not at all, I'm saying his pace is comparable when everything is perfect. But speed is only part of a driver's skills, adaptation to circumstances is another skill Alonso is far superior in. Unfortunately that's an intangible statistic, so it's hard to explain, or at least there's not an established metric to measure this.GoranF1 wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 18:34In what universe?godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 16:45Vandoorne is the development driver I guess because in the race in clean air his speed isn't too different from Alonso's.
Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.ollandos wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 17:27good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time
I think in Monaco aero probably come to play more in Tabac and Swimming Pool Chicane and probably also in Casino Square.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 20:46Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.ollandos wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 17:27good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time
I think you have this backwards. In slow corners, aero is not that important, mechanical grip is. In fast corners, aero is what keeps the car on track.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 20:46Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.ollandos wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 17:27good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time
Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?zeph wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:13I think you have this backwards. In slow corners, aero is not that important, mechanical grip is. In fast corners, aero is what keeps the car on track.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 20:46Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.ollandos wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 17:27good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time
Sector 2 for sure.ALO_Power wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 20:56I think in Monaco aero probably come to play more in Tabac and Swimming Pool Chicane and probably also in Casino Square.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 20:46Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.ollandos wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 17:27good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time
The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:34Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?zeph wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:13I think you have this backwards. In slow corners, aero is not that important, mechanical grip is. In fast corners, aero is what keeps the car on track.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 20:46
Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.
If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?DFX wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:43The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:34Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?
Under 100/120 kph aero just isn't there. If you've ever been in a aero heavy car you should know, it's almost like someone flips a switch. From having no downforce, almost veering off track at 100kph, but if you take the same corner at 130, it sticks.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:47If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?DFX wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:43The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:34
Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?
I think that your understanding of the situation is as good as your analogy.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:47If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?DFX wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:43The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:34
Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?
... What mechanical aspect do you think is causing loss of time in a part of the track that emphasises aero performance?DFX wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 22:08I think that your understanding of the situation is as good as your analogy.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:47If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?
"Very fast corners that are easily flat" only are easily flat because of the reliance on aero to make the car stick to it, cars that are not as good generating downforce will generally have to lift sooner consequently spending less time on throttle.
I never said that aero is not important in the slow corners, but its importance is severly reduced. So if the car is generating only 10% of the downforce that it can ultimately produce and is still losing most of its time in those corners, one can deduce that the mechanical part is not working at its best and is probably the main cause of the majority of the time lost.
The analogy like your statment leaves a lot of factors out of the table, i can still manage to eat even though i dont have money at all.
I’m afraid your theories about aero on slow corners is wrong. It’s just not there. Being bullish against someone who is right and in your mind not complementary towards McLaren is not nice.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 22:53You are entitled to your opinion, which is fine, and naturally you will be defensive of it. One day you'll learn that any opinion in your mind did not originate from you, it is an amalgamation of external stimuli. Your only role in this is your brain unconsciously arranging the stimuli in a way you can understand it. Once you realize this you'll learn that people speak from their own point of view and in order to understand them you need a certain amount of flexibility in your perspective.DFX wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 22:08I think that your understanding of the situation is as good as your analogy.godlameroso wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 21:47
If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?
"Very fast corners that are easily flat" only are easily flat because of the reliance on aero to make the car stick to it, cars that are not as good generating downforce will generally have to lift sooner consequently spending less time on throttle.
I never said that aero is not important in the slow corners, but its importance is severly reduced. So if the car is generating only 10% of the downforce that it can ultimately produce and is still losing most of its time in those corners, one can deduce that the mechanical part is not working at its best and is probably the main cause of the majority of the time lost.
The analogy like your statment leaves a lot of factors out of the table, i can still manage to eat even though i dont have money at all.
Enough lecturing about decency and ettiquete. What mechanical aspect do you think is causing loss of time in a part of the track that emphasises aero performance?