2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

[Raleigh]

That isn't true Vettel and Webber thanked Renault on the podium frequently iirc.

Yeah, but I don't remember Horner and the others on the wall giving Renault their dues.

Yeah I don't either. I do recall that Renault had been silly enough to honour the engine freeze and as a result where down on power compared to the Merc - RedBull was mainly winning due to being vastly superior in chassis and aero.

That's not even close to the full picture...

Renault had the best fuel economy, best power delivery and worked very closely with Red Bull on the off-throttle blown diffuser, overall what Red Bull was getting from Renault was probably the best engine package of the V8 era.

But of course Horner was ever-competitive and wanting more, so instead of praising how good the Renault engine was he was publicly complaining about hp figures trying to pressure the FIA into giving a Renault engine update.

[techman]

the reanult engine was never the best, redbull made them look good. look at renault f1 team and mclaren they are over a second slower. next year renault will not come close to the top 3 . it will take another 2 years or more. so yes next year people will take about renault being the 4th engine in terms of power

[adrianjordan]

the reanult engine was never the best, redbull made them look good. look at renault f1 team and mclaren they are over a second slower. next year renault will not come close to the top 3 . it will take another 2 years or more. so yes next year people will take about renault being the 4th engine in terms of power

Once again you miss the point. They are talking about the V8 engine during RBR's dominant years. But why let facts get in the way of your argument.

[dxpetrov]

Yes, and even in V8 era, Renault engines were way down on power and not been a rose in reliability department either.

[techman]

Once again you miss the point. They are talking about the V8 engine during RBR's dominant years. But why let facts get in the way of your argument.

even in those v8 era days , they werent as strong as the mercs or ferraris. its adrian neweys magic that helped them

[djos]

Webber had frequent KERS issues during during qually too iirc, although I can't recall if that was a RedBull system or Renault.

[bosyber]

Well, in the V8 era, the Renault engine's size, and frugality, and it's cold blowing did give a clear advantage (despite power disadvantage) to Red Bull; of course, Red Bull still had to build the rest of the car, and importantly, get a top-notch team to support it, get tactics and strategy, as well as pit stops right, so yeah, not as if Red Bull with another engine wouldn't have been very very strong, but it did at that time all together, including the Renault engine, work out.

[Phil]

They didn't really give credit back in the winning years. That's what rankles with some. Proper partners "win together, lose together". With RedBull, it's "we win, they lose".

That isn't true Vettel and Webber thanked Renault on the podium frequently iirc.

Yeah, but I don't remember Horner and the others on the wall giving Renault their dues.

As if it was their obligation to do so? please. Renault milked their championship winning years with special editions of their cars (Clio and Megane RS) and lots of ads. Dont make Renault out to be the victimes they arent because bad Horner and others didnt credit Renault at every opportunity. It’s a business relationship.

[dren]

Yes, and even in V8 era, Renault engines were way down on power and not been a rose in reliability department either.

Development was locked except for reliability updates. Merc and Ferrari had 'reliability' updates that added performance. Later, Renault and Honda were allowed to 'equalize' their engine's performance, Renault did but that was the year Honda left F1.

[dren]

Webber had frequent KERS issues during during qually too iirc, although I can't recall if that was a RedBull system or Renault.

Red Bull developed their own system and had it mounted in a harsh environment on the car.

[adrianjordan]

Once again you miss the point. They are talking about the V8 engine during RBR's dominant years. But why let facts get in the way of your argument.

even in those v8 era days , they werent as strong as the mercs or ferraris. its adrian neweys magic that helped them

Yes, but my point was thay you were talking about "look at Mclaren" when we were talking about a period when Mclaren were still with Merc...

[NL_Fer]

Renault was so horribele down on power, the 2008 car was slower than the Ferrari powered Torro Rosso that year.

[Manoah2u]

Webber had frequent KERS issues during during qually too iirc, although I can't recall if that was a RedBull system or Renault.

Red Bull developed their own system and had it mounted in a harsh environment on the car.

RedBull had many Renault-concerned ICE problems concerning regular issues with Magneti Marelli alternators.
Also, Renault was allowed - whereas the competition was not allowed - to have a temporal 'unfreeze' to the development of their engine to catch up to the competition. I remember it vividly.
So yes, Renault was behind even in the V8 era. The unfreeze allowed them to come closer, without that, i'm pretty sure there would have not been such a dominant era with RedBull.

Totally apart from that though, it is a curious name though.

Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda. There's no conflict of interest though, so not an issue either.

Interestingly though, there might even be some future with the Aston Martin Valkyrie. I don't know it's powerplant, probably a AMG Mercedes engine, but could we even see a Honda powerplant in the Valyrie in the future, or perhaps even in Aston Martin cars in general?

A joint collaboration between Honda, Hangar ??? of RedBull, and Aston Martin might produce something interesting.

[ognjent]

Renault won the title in 2006 with a V8 on merit against Ferrari and McL. Do you guys really think that Renault chassis was that much better than Rory Birne's Ferrari because, as you said, Renault was way down on power? Of course not.

I remind you that in the late V8 era another team (Lotus) used Renault engines and they were also very competitive. Do you think that Enstone with that low budget developed superior chassis in comparison with McL? Joke. Look again at some races back then and you will see how are you wrong (I recently watched GP Spain 2012 and remember Martin Brundles commentary of Renault's top speed advantage when Grosjean overtook Rosberg on the straight).

Last couple of posts are the exact reason why this divorce will be extremely beneficiary for Renault in the long run. Bunch of F1 fans heard nothing but complaining from Horner and Marco over the years, maybe justified in 2014 and 2015, but utterly unjustified in 2009-2013 and of course drawed their own rather distorted conclusions, pretty much far away from facts. Renault are lucky that there was no internet back in the 90-is, probably they were underpowered when they took all those title with Williams also.

[dren]

If I remember right, Red Bull developed their own KERS after having issues with the Renault option.

I think the Valkyrie uses a Cossworth V12.