General Honda F1 Topic

[PlatinumZealot]

well a few tenths of kw mean the its a very low bhp value. and we know normally 10bhp equates about 0.1 sec gain. so there is nothing there. and the fact that the honda engine is a smaller compact engine to renault , i believe the overall honda package is better than renaults

That part of the translation was a little weird for me too. It could even be a tenth of a second or ten kilowatts too. The former more likely based on how TR is running.

[techman]

i would not be surprised if its tenths of kw, considering the late switch to honda. its most likely not full intergated properly. lack of a budget meaning they cant bring a b spec car like mclaren neither they have the potential to bring consistent upgrades. also the two rookie drivers and in that only one driver is competent enough to score points. so there are so many variables to think here. plus there is a fuel upgrade for honda soon.

[Singabule]

Honda admit they are still behind, you cannot argue with that. However they still have 3 more engine mode that still utilized yet but the reliability issue kick in. Tanabe played down their change in front of media, unlike the Arai san. This is to mitigate unneeded pressure from external party. In the other hand RB management is not stupid hence they know what Honda PU is capable of. In marketing point of view, Black horse always have more value than the defending champion. RB also known as youth energy and so does honda. Really win and win for both (not sure about AM)

[hasika]

Well.....let me think
Yamamoto san said honda was still behind in the interview ,but i also remember that tanabe san said they need another 2~3 races to compared the SPEC2 engine with Renault after Canada GP.
I am also confused about what they say.

[Big Tea]

I think it should probably read tens of KW not tenths of KW.
That mistype/translation often appears on this board from non native English too.

[TakataDomeNSX]

an interesting little tidbit


@AlbertFabrega
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Albert Fabrega Retweeted Xavi

Con el Honda actual, Red Bull también habría ganado en Mónaco. No les hace falta un supermotor. En realidad, el Renault no lo es.

Translation:
Albert Fabrega added,
With the current Honda, Red Bull would also have won in Monaco. They don't need a supermotor. Actually, the Renault is not.

[hasika]

I think it should probably read tens of KW not tenths of KW.
That mistype/translation often appears on this board from non native English too.

You are right...

[McG]

It didn't take Red Bull very long to make the decision. It must have been pretty clear cut in the numbers.

Red Bull and Honda didn't really have any other choice. It'll put both of them on the back foot for another couple of years while Merc and Ferrari dominate. There's no sign that Honda can make a leap in 2021 so there's nothing too positive in this deal.

[techman]

Red Bull and Honda didn't really have any other choice. It'll put both of them on the back foot for another couple of years while Merc and Ferrari dominate. There's no sign that Honda can make a leap in 2021 so there's nothing too positive in this deal.

so you reckon no redbull honda wins next season?

[dren]

It didn't take Red Bull very long to make the decision. It must have been pretty clear cut in the numbers.

Red Bull and Honda didn't really have any other choice. It'll put both of them on the back foot for another couple of years while Merc and Ferrari dominate. There's no sign that Honda can make a leap in 2021 so there's nothing too positive in this deal.

Red Bull clearly could have stayed with Renault and won races like they are now. Both on the back foot for two years? No sign that Honda can improve in 2021 with new engine regulations? What's your logic?

[Revs84]

Google Translate says 'several' not 'few'

"I think now that Mercedes and Ferrari's (power unit) are nearly equal, after that it is Renault 3rd and I think that there is a Honda near there, but it is the fourth. I think that it is necessary to raise the output of several tens of kW in order to extract it. "

Let's for the sake of the argument say it's a few, that could make it around 30 to 40 kW down (or possibly more), which translates to around 40 to 50 bhp.

Not saying it's not possible, but the following do not support this:

1. Yamamoto also said that Honda is near Renault, however, I can't see how that could be the case if they were 50bhp down?

2. Earlier in the season, it was stated that Honda are give or take 10 bhp down on Renault. That would mean that Renault this year found between 70 and 80 bhp already?

3. Red Bull surely have the numbers at hand, and if they were really 50 bhp down, I doubt they would have swapped. Marko and Mateschitz have often said that they are extremely close.

4. 50bhp down on Renault would possibly mean 80 to 100 bhp down on Ferrari and Mercedes. Now unless Haas and Force India are parachutes, even with DRS, how the heck would Gasly overtake both in Canada?

5. It's been mentioned that spec2 would finally close the gap to Renault. We know that both Honda and Renault brought around 20bhp with their spec 2, Honda possibly a little bit more, so I have no idea how suddenly from closing the gap they went to a possible 50bhp deficit?

All of which make me think that the deficit he is talking about is not to Renault, but to Ferrari and Mercedes, whereas any deficit to Renault would run around 10kW max.

Excuse me for mentioning a lot of 'facts' without supporting with a links. Would take me quite longer as I would need to search for them, but if in doubt, I'll happily oblige when I have some time

[dren]

We'll see next year when Red Bull has a Honda PU in the back. It's not worth trying to sift through a translation and figure out how much Honda is lagging. Red Bull has the Renault and is changing to a Honda. They must see some sort of benefit.

[kptaylor]

It's a long term play as well. RB were included on the 2021 planning direction ahead of their decision so they may well be happy with parity between Honda & Renault for '19 & '20 with the expectations of true works status and much better performance based upon the new regs in '21.

[McG]

It didn't take Red Bull very long to make the decision. It must have been pretty clear cut in the numbers.

Red Bull and Honda didn't really have any other choice. It'll put both of them on the back foot for another couple of years while Merc and Ferrari dominate. There's no sign that Honda can make a leap in 2021 so there's nothing too positive in this deal.

Red Bull clearly could have stayed with Renault and won races like they are now. Both on the back foot for two years? No sign that Honda can improve in 2021 with new engine regulations? What's your logic?

The logic is that they are still the worst engine after nearly 4 years. Anything other than than that is blind faith, which Honda fans have in abundance. Red Bull and Renault were finished a long time ago, Honda was their only choice.

We'll see next year when Red Bull has a Honda PU in the back. It's not worth trying to sift through a translation and figure out how much Honda is lagging. Red Bull has the Renault and is changing to a Honda. They must see some sort of benefit.

Yes we will see how again a weak engine will hold Red Bull back, only it's an even weaker engine this time.

[Big Tea]

If the Honda has components that need changing every 3 or 4 races but allows them to step forward in the 2 or 3 other races, they will probably see it as a gain.

Red Bull are in the strange position right now that they have nothing to fear from teams below them but can not quite get the little extra to level the top 2.