2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[RonDennis]

Confirmation of what you mentioned. From the article below, looks like they believe they're making progress with finding a fix.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-321880.html

That's probably why they were running new parts on Friday. Those aren't raceable yet, but according to the Spanish media they did do what McLaren expected them to do. Let's hope they can make some progress after Silverstone.

A couple of weeks back, it was reported that they expected to have updates for Monaco, Canada and Silverstone. Is the plan still on for the Silverstone updates, or the FP sessions will strictly about testing parts for future races, likely from Hungary?

I don't know, but I heard Alonso say that it wasn't possible to bring any major updates to fix the current problems with the triple-header. They seemed to have stop throwing updates on the car and focusing on fixing their problems. Looking at the comments of that McLaren aerodynamicst on Twitter, it was good weekend for them (test wise). So it seems that they are starting to understand what is wrong. If they do, they can make some big steps. Similar to what Red Bull has done last year, although you shouldn't expect magic to happen.

[media]https://twitter.com/ivanlda/status/1013656719212367872[/media]

[Big Tea]

This would seem more sensible. No point updating based on something that does not work. If needed, go back to a point where things were right and come forward from there.
Expensive in time and resources, but necessary to know where you stand.

[GoranF1]

Anyone else hear Andrew (Benson?) on BBC 5Live coverage of first practice? He really has it in for McLaren..!!

What did he said?

Nothing new, just really laying into them and basically saying that they're not able to identify problems that other teams have solved etc etc etc....also that noone outside of Mclaren thought their chassis last year was any good, it was very draggy and that they blamed Honda for everything etc etc etc... Sounded a lot like some members on here actually...

Andrew, are you listening??

I hope they bring big package to Hungaroring, i am going to the race.
They don't want to see me disapointed.

[M840TR]

The car seems to perform better with old or broken parts. The safety periods certainly helped out.

They've only run with old or broken parts in races. You're mistaking better race than Quali pace for broken parts pace.

The difference is:
Quali - How fast you can go over one lap.
Race - Fastest average lap speed, including pit stops, your tires will let you go.

It's obvious McLaren have an edge over most of the midfield on tire life. This has surprised me to some extent. They lack top speed, so they tend to go faster in the corners to get the same lap time of others, which I presumed would consume the tires more. It's obviously alot more complicated than that. DF, the ability for the suspension to keep the largest contact patch on the pavement, corner speed and car length all factor in.

I don’t think they’re much better in tyre management than others. Alonso said he had reasonable blistering on the SS in first stint. Then their were reports he conserved tyres on second stint to attack in the end but I’m not sure since on radio they said “maximum attack till end” quite early on. It’s likely that good car balance helps them more than others in midfield.

[Manoah2u]

I must say, criticize Alonso all you want, be he was in his right to complain at the start of the race, and demanded something to happen.
And look what happened, even if you could say he was lucky with some DNF's, he finished 8th in the end.

versus an as-usual-always-and-ever-so-boring VanDoorne all the way at the back. Gawd just embarassing.
Alonso finishing P8 was another prime example why F1 needs Alonso, and why he needs to be in a top seat.

Mclaren is just a drag for him now, just like Ferrari was. empty promises, making use of a fantastic driver which deserves to be in a much better place.

I really hope Alonso can move to RedBull next year, and to see either Raikkonen or Bottas @ Mclaren next year. Oddly enough, i think Raikkonen quite fits Mclaren.
Additionally, VanDoorne never has been impressive, never had potential, never will have potential, and never will be impressive and is a drag for Mclaren too.
Please just replace him with ACTUAL talent, Lando Norris. Don't expect any wonders, but that guy needs to have a drive. Raikkonen - Norris would be a balanced combo i'd say.

Norris has patience and is promising, Raikkonen doesn't give af. So neither cares much about 3 years furhter development before another 2 years in moving towards the front.
Raikkonen will find himself retiring by then guaranteed and there'd be space for somebody else. Norris in the meantime has enough experience to be mature enough for the battle.

[epo]

I must say, criticize Alonso all you want, be he was in his right to complain at the start of the race, and demanded something to happen.
And look what happened, even if you could say he was lucky with some DNF's, he finished 8th in the end.

versus an as-usual-always-and-ever-so-boring VanDoorne all the way at the back. Gawd just embarassing.
Alonso finishing P8 was another prime example why F1 needs Alonso, and why he needs to be in a top seat.

Mclaren is just a drag for him now, just like Ferrari was. empty promises, making use of a fantastic driver which deserves to be in a much better place.

I really hope Alonso can move to RedBull next year, and to see either Raikkonen or Bottas @ Mclaren next year. Oddly enough, i think Raikkonen quite fits Mclaren.
Additionally, VanDoorne never has been impressive, never had potential, never will have potential, and never will be impressive and is a drag for Mclaren too.
Please just replace him with ACTUAL talent, Lando Norris. Don't expect any wonders, but that guy needs to have a drive. Raikkonen - Norris would be a balanced combo i'd say.

Norris has patience and is promising, Raikkonen doesn't give af. So neither cares much about 3 years furhter development before another 2 years in moving towards the front.
Raikkonen will find himself retiring by then guaranteed and there'd be space for somebody else. Norris in the meantime has enough experience to be mature enough for the battle.

Well no offense, he is a great driver but did you see who finished behind him? Still a good place to finish don't get me wrong. But Gasly had problems after the collision, Sainzt is bad with nursing tires, Leclerc spinned and let's not talk about the other drivers behind him. Still you have to be there and well he is always there if there are some points to score.
I rather see Alonso next to Hamilton, that will be fireworks Red Bull will never happen (Merc also never gonna happen while HAM is still there).

[Chicane]

After some research and piecing together all the bytes from the team and reports from AMUS, we can take a guess as to where the issue really is. Amid talks of rear end stability, lack of rear downforce which needs higher wing levels for stability, nervousness in corner entry and lack of speed in low to medium speed corners it all points to unexpected diffuser stall in corner entry. Rear wing and Diffuser are the two primary devices responsible for generating downforce at the rear and since they cannot get the diffuser to work effectively they are having to crank up the rear wing which has high drag penalty.

They are testing multiple front wings with subtle modifications not just in Austria but pretty much every weekend. They also tested a new one front wing which was a lot different in FP1 which they did not race because it wasn't made of right material. I am no aerodynamicist, in fact far far from it but it is the front wing, which has a major role in directing the air flow to the underbody and diffuser. Basically when the car is moving rapidly on the straights the rear springs compress and there is some partial diffuser stall which is good as it helps in reducing downforce on straights which leads to improved straight line speed. However when the driver come off the brakes the air flow has to reattach to give confidence to the driver in corner entry. This is where they are having issues i feel.

Once they hone in on the design of the front wing , {reports claim the front wing tested in FP1produced the desired result}s next step will most likely be further upgrade in the bargeboard area as this area also plays a crucial role in channeling the air to the underbody and diffuser.

Also aero development can be done in three ways a wind tunnel, CFD and building actual parts to test them out on track. Usually teams rely on both CFD and wind tunnel to design the parts and verify them on track but since Mclaren are unable to replicate their issues in the wind tunnel they are having to go to a direct but time consuming idea approach of building actual parts and gauging their effectiveness via aero rakes/ flow wiz before introducing them in race ready trim. I expect them to bring in parts with regularity once they get on top of their fundamental issue.

[Vasconia]

What did he said?

Nothing new, just really laying into them and basically saying that they're not able to identify problems that other teams have solved etc etc etc....also that noone outside of Mclaren thought their chassis last year was any good, it was very draggy and that they blamed Honda for everything etc etc etc... Sounded a lot like some members on here actually...

Andrew, are you listening??

I hope they bring big package to Hungaroring, i am going to the race.
They don't want to see me disapointed.

I have seen somewhere than they will bring an important update to this race but I wouldn´t be too optimistic, just in case...

[M840TR]

According to f1.com Vandoorne’s suspension was bent and floor damaged after contact with Gasly.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/feat ... ition.html

[McG]

Bit of a disaster for SV then, no wonder he finished farther back than usual. Let's give him another 9 races to show his worth.

[skwdenyer]

Re aero correlation issues, this nonsense FIA rule requiring the use of small-scale wind tunnels is costing money rather than saving it.

Wind tunnels don’t scale, because the air doesn’t scale when the model does. So one must perform complex calculations to compare the two. You can’t just scale up the working part from the tunnel and expect it to work on the car.

Reynolds number is the historical basis of those calculations.

When aero goes awry, suddenly the team must knock up full-size parts, air freight them, test then on track, etc.

A return to full-size tunnels, coupled with modern rapid prototyping techniques (3D printing, CNC machining, etc) would likely result in an actual cost reduction.

It would also allow teams to catch up in season more quickly, with real benefits to the sporting contest.

All IMHO of course

[DFX]

Re aero correlation issues, this nonsense FIA rule requiring the use of small-scale wind tunnels is costing money rather than saving it.

Wind tunnels don’t scale, because the air doesn’t scale when the model does. So one must perform complex calculations to compare the two. You can’t just scale up the working part from the tunnel and expect it to work on the car.

Reynolds number is the historical basis of those calculations.

When aero goes awry, suddenly the team must knock up full-size parts, air freight them, test then on track, etc.

A return to full-size tunnels, coupled with modern rapid prototyping techniques (3D printing, CNC machining, etc) would likely result in an actual cost reduction.

It would also allow teams to catch up in season more quickly, with real benefits to the sporting contest.

All IMHO of course

Great observation!

[M840TR]

Re aero correlation issues, this nonsense FIA rule requiring the use of small-scale wind tunnels is costing money rather than saving it.

Wind tunnels don’t scale, because the air doesn’t scale when the model does. So one must perform complex calculations to compare the two. You can’t just scale up the working part from the tunnel and expect it to work on the car.

Reynolds number is the historical basis of those calculations.

When aero goes awry, suddenly the team must knock up full-size parts, air freight them, test then on track, etc.

A return to full-size tunnels, coupled with modern rapid prototyping techniques (3D printing, CNC machining, etc) would likely result in an actual cost reduction.

It would also allow teams to catch up in season more quickly, with real benefits to the sporting contest.

All IMHO of course

They already use 3D printing

[Tommy Cookers]

a fullsize car tunnel never gave Renolds number similarity as it never went at fullsize speed
because of the impossibility of having a fullsize width fullsize length fullsize speed moving ground plane

aero design is now of a type that has become greatly dependent on Re no similarity
10 or 20 years ago it wasn't
the simpler wing rules upcoming may help a bit in this respect

the airliner isn't WT tested anywhere near similarity - they test at a range of Res of various dissimilarities (Re sweeps)
in effect to prove that their extent of Re dissimilarity gives a legitimate result

Re similarity in F1 would hugely increase tunnel costs and difficulties

[Alonso Fan]

Re aero correlation issues, this nonsense FIA rule requiring the use of small-scale wind tunnels is costing money rather than saving it.

Wind tunnels don’t scale, because the air doesn’t scale when the model does. So one must perform complex calculations to compare the two. You can’t just scale up the working part from the tunnel and expect it to work on the car.

Reynolds number is the historical basis of those calculations.

When aero goes awry, suddenly the team must knock up full-size parts, air freight them, test then on track, etc.

A return to full-size tunnels, coupled with modern rapid prototyping techniques (3D printing, CNC machining, etc) would likely result in an actual cost reduction.

It would also allow teams to catch up in season more quickly, with real benefits to the sporting contest.

All IMHO of course

I thought dimensional analysis sorted all that out?