UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

[Just_a_fan]

It's probably mostly that people are afraid of change mixed with a bit of range anxiety and long charge times compared to filling up a tank.

I think that's the real issue with EVs in the public mind. "They don't go very far and they take forever to recharge". Both of those things are being dealt with and certainly, in the case of range, have been pretty much dealt with. High speed charging is coming on stream too, so parking up for 10-15 minutes whilst it charges is a reality. Doing so every 300 miles on a long trip is hardly an issue - people stop for coffee and toilet breaks on such journeys anyway so the time "lost" is covered by those breaks. Sure, some will only stop long enough to brim the tank currently, but they are unlikley to be in the majority.

[Just_a_fan]

Even though Venus has high CO2 it also has a much much thicker atmosphere overall.
Not just CO2.

It's about 96% CO2. Which is, by any reasonable definition, "high"

[jjn9128]

It's probably mostly that people are afraid of change mixed with a bit of range anxiety and long charge times compared to filling up a tank.

You'd think most people were driving 500 miles a day the way they drone on about range, the average commute length by car (in the UK) is less than 10 miles (<20 including return journey), a lot of new EV's could do this for over a week before they needed to be plugged in (over 2 weeks with some high end EVs). Sensible people should be fine - the roads aren't littered with people constantly running out of petrol.

[Greg Locock]

I /want/ an EV but I can't /have/ an EV unless I sell my house and stop doing things I want to do. My commute is 97 km one way. My house is off grid. I cannot charge an EV for that trip overnight. (Well OK I could install a seriously embiggened diesel generator, 4 times the size of the current one, and run it ALL night).

Twice a year I drive to Sydney (1000 km) towing an 800 kg trailer. An EV could do that, but it would take two days instead of one day. So that would directly cost me 4 days pay and two lots of overnight accomodation, more or less the annual lease cost of the car.

So, there's a real life case where EVs don't cut it. Sure, they have a place as a second car or a commuter runabout, but they are not yet ready to replace fossil fueled vehicles, or I suppose (spit) hydrogen powered vehicles. When the density of truly high speed charging stations is sufficient perhaps that will change.

[rscsr]

I /want/ an EV but I can't /have/ an EV unless I sell my house and stop doing things I want to do. My commute is 97 km one way. My house is off grid. I cannot charge an EV for that trip overnight. (Well OK I could install a seriously embiggened diesel generator, 4 times the size of the current one, and run it ALL night).

Twice a year I drive to Sydney (1000 km) towing an 800 kg trailer. An EV could do that, but it would take two days instead of one day. So that would directly cost me 4 days pay and two lots of overnight accomodation, more or less the annual lease cost of the car.

So, there's a real life case where EVs don't cut it. Sure, they have a place as a second car or a commuter runabout, but they are not yet ready to replace fossil fueled vehicles, or I suppose (spit) hydrogen powered vehicles. When the density of truly high speed charging stations is sufficient perhaps that will change.

I'm sorry but that is just your situation. Because EV don't cut it for your situation that doesn't mean they don't work for more than 97% of people. And you could run a photovoltaik storage sytem and dump your generator. And when you want to drive to Sydney with your trailer, there are range extenders which should work. And of course, it doesn't need to run on diesel. You could make a Power to Gas converter and even make your own fuel when you need it and be truly off the grid.

[Just_a_fan]

So, there's a real life case where EVs don't cut it.

Indeed so, a case where a current technology EV won't work. Funny thing is that the majority of people don't live in such situations. Most live in cities and towns and have grid supply power. Their daily distance requirements are much less than 100 miles. For these people, current technology EVs are entirely suitable. One issue for many is still that of cost to buy, however. EVs are still fairly expensive compared to a similar vehicle with an ICE.

[Greg Locock]

"And you could run a photovoltaik storage sytem and dump your generator. "

Stand up and turn round and bend over, you sound a bit muffled. In winter a photovoltaic system such as mine (1.5 kW plate capacity, 20 kWh of batteries) would provide enough charge to run an EV for 5 km, on an average day. That almost gets me to a paved road. Of course for a week at a time we don't even get that much charge in a day. And oddly enough we have other uses for the electricity, such as running the house. So for a reasonably sized system a genny is not only cost effective, it is essential.

[Andres125sx]

Indeed, to me that´s the main problem now, price.

EVs are way too expensive right now, much more than a comparable ICE vehicle. Range and charging times are far from a problem for most users, but if cost is around 50% higher they´re not worth from an economical point of view.

Best example is battery renting prices for those manufacturers wich offer this option, they´re easily over half the price you pay for gasoline in a similar period, add to that the electricity cost and they´re not worth


I hope/expect prices will go down as production numbers go up, once they´re more affordable I´ll surely go for an EV, but right now I can´t stop thinking they´re asking for way too much money for any EV

[Andres125sx]

"And you could run a photovoltaik storage sytem and dump your generator. "

Stand up and turn round and bend over, you sound a bit muffled. In winter a photovoltaic system such as mine (1.5 kW plate capacity, 20 kWh of batteries) would provide enough charge to run an EV for 5 km, on an average day. That almost gets me to a paved road. Of course for a week at a time we don't even get that much charge in a day. And oddly enough we have other uses for the electricity, such as running the house. So for a reasonably sized system a genny is not only cost effective, it is essential.

With 1.5kW and 20kWh of batteries you have enough energy to run your house?

I´m very interested on this as I´m doing some numbers to analyse what should be the investment to become off-grid, and 1.5kW didn´t seem enough to me, even for a small house.

I´ve been looking at systems wich go from 3kW (standard house) to 6kW (big house with pool, paddle court, 2 jacuzzis...) with 150Ah batteries, wich is way bigger than my needs, but I think is a good reference.

[Greg Locock]

1.5 kW runs the house for about 6 months of the year. We only use 1 big thing at a time (microwave, toaster, irrigation pump, electric chainsaw, iron, log splitter). In the depths of winter I need 2+ hours a day from the generator, which supplies the house and charges the batteries at 1 kW.

I've got a power logger, I could tell you exactly how much energy the house takes daily (in about 5 weeks when I get home). I think it averages about 3-4 kWh per day. You'll notice we don't use electricity for any significant form of heating (apart from the towel rail!)

[Cold Fussion]

It's probably mostly that people are afraid of change mixed with a bit of range anxiety and long charge times compared to filling up a tank.

You'd think most people were driving 500 miles a day the way they drone on about range, the average commute length by car (in the UK) is less than 10 miles (<20 including return journey), a lot of new EV's could do this for over a week before they needed to be plugged in (over 2 weeks with some high end EVs). Sensible people should be fine - the roads aren't littered with people constantly running out of petrol.

I agree however i forgot to mention the costs of EV's is probably the main barrier to entry. A Renault Zoe costs around 50k AUD here in Australia, if that price was 20-30k then I suspect you'd see a lot more EV's being bought and the public mindset changing pretty quickly.

[Andres125sx]

1.5 kW runs the house for about 6 months of the year. We only use 1 big thing at a time (microwave, toaster, irrigation pump, electric chainsaw, iron, log splitter). In the depths of winter I need 2+ hours a day from the generator, which supplies the house and charges the batteries at 1 kW.

I've got a power logger, I could tell you exactly how much energy the house takes daily (in about 5 weeks when I get home). I think it averages about 3-4 kWh per day. You'll notice we don't use electricity for any significant form of heating (apart from the towel rail!)

Great, if you don´t mind that info will be very useful to me, thanks!

[Tommy Cookers]

today an official report is telling the UK .....
that suburban houses soon must be built to include an EV charging supply
that there will be on-street charging supplies in street lamps

I presumably missed the report saying whether ....
our EV batteries will be helping out the grid (which would presumably preclude inductive charging) or
EV battery sizes and charge rates will be limited by law to help the grid

note to self - fuel duty contributes about 30 billion to the revenue (and there's the tax on non-zero tailpipe emission cars)


another report says that China is polluting the world with CFC-11 emissions (banned worldwide in 2010) from home insulation
EDIT for self - c.20th July we are told ....
in 10 years we (the UK) will have 30% of our 'energy' from renewables - clearly they mean our electrical energy
the Gulf Stream stopping will not cause global or local cooling but global warming
BTW for self - water vapour producing clouds causes warming not cooling
so which 40 years of climate science do we believe ?

[loner]

Two Coradia iLint trains have begun running a line in northern Germany

[strad]

So, there's a real life case where EVs don't cut it.

And in the U.S. you could multiply that by hundreds of thousands if not a million.
Look at the figures for people who drive on holidays like Labor Day or Memorial day etc.
Labor Day= 35 million driving more than 50 miles. So if only a third of them take long trips that would be well over11 million.