2018 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 27-29 July

[iotar__]

This race was the championship in a nutshell. Steady HAM, sloppy VET, frustrated BOT, DNF VER and smiling RIC

hahahaaaa, great one.

No, championship in a nuttshell was Germany :
- HAM failure
- HAM excuses
- VET failure
- MERC failure (pitstop mess)
- MERC team orders
- FIA cheating
- "Storms to win" headlines

After replays: I think Bottas deserved more than 10s for Ricciardo crash. Not much 50/50 or any racing in that move. A sympathy penalty.

If you didn't think Verstappen - Rb thing was preplanned BS - now they're getting headlines from usual suspects about how it was wrong to say all the bad things, sorry, sorry . Sod racing part - let's recycle this one.

[dans79]

If the excellent wet performances are all in one season with the same car, then yes, one could/should argue that the car is the deciding factor. If the excellent wet performances are across several seasons (and indeed more than one team) then the most likely answer is that the driver is excellent in the wet. If there is one unchanged variable amongst a number of changed variables and the result is the same, then the unchanged variable is likely the reason for the result. In this case, the driver is the one unchanged variable. The car is one of the changed variables.

Come now, don't you know logic is frowned upon in these types of discussions.

[zac510]

As long as I've been watching F1 the best drivers in the wet are also the best drivers in the dry.
It's the same in any sport - the best players are just better than the rest.

[marvin78]

If you said "one of the best" I would say: Ok that might be and there is a good chance that you are right. Everything else is just a speculation or just an opinion.

[NL_Fer]

What about Vettels strategy? If they were all going to end on mediums, i would understand the start on soft. But now he was unable to jump Bottas at the start or 1st lap and after the stop he was nurthering the ultra’s, again unable to overtake Bottas. In the same time, Lewis was just cruising away.

[Moose]

The alternative would have been to start on the Ultras, and get them used up unable to pass a car on the same tyres.

At the Hungaroring you need a massive lap time advantage to overtake. Putting Vettel on the ultras while the Mercs would probably be (and were in the end) on the Softs maximized the possible time delta, so that straight after his pit stop, Vettel stood the maximum chance of catching and passing for the lead.

The pit stop screwed that up for them though. Without losing a second in the stop, we would probably be looking at a very different result.

[dans79]

The pit stop screwed that up for them though. Without losing a second in the stop, we would probably be looking at a very different result.

Vettel himself disagrees with this statement.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13774 ... ton-defeat

Vettel, who went on to finish second after surviving contact while passing the fading Bottas late on, admitted "something didn't go as we planned".

He said: "We lost out and we came out behind, that didn't help.

"Without that it would have been a much more relaxed last part of the race, probably hunting down Lewis.

"But with the gap that he had, I think it would have been difficult to catch - and then it's a completely different story, especially around here to overtake.

"I think we could have done the catching bit, but not really the overtaking.

"In the end it doesn't change much, just that it was a bit more work than coming out ahead."

[NL_Fer]

Two laps before his stop, the gap to Bottas was 24s. They were staying out long, to shorthen the stint on ultrasoft.

But i think a start on Ultra, would give him a chance to overtake Bottas during the start. Than using superior race speed and tyre life, he could have put much more pressure on Hamilton.

[PlatinumZealot]

This is where the race was won.

See Hamiton's notes on qualifying (what separates him is his feel for the track) and his thoughts on the Ferrari's superior pace in the dry.

[rscsr]

Two laps before his stop, the gap to Bottas was 24s. They were staying out long, to shorthen the stint on ultrasoft.

But i think a start on Ultra, would give him a chance to overtake Bottas during the start. Than using superior race speed and tyre life, he could have put much more pressure on Hamilton.

I wouldn't count on starting better for a race strategy. Of course you take what you get, but the race start is way to uncertain to make your strategy rely on the racestart.

[f1316]

Hamilton’s been better than Vettel in my view but more through consistently than any massively standout performances, and I still think he gets sulky and despirited when things go against him; we’ve seen a few of them this year.

This is actually a good way to put Lewis. Difference being is that he tends to bounce back with a vengence, where Vettel simply falls to pieces and compounds his mistakes... and sometimes throws his car at other drivers for it or curses Charlie Whitting out or hits another car AFTER the race on the cooldown lap or causes a collision at the start with his teammate.

Hamilton and Vettel combined have won a staggering 55% of the races since 2007, whatever factors one wishes to point out are clearly beyond luck, but a marked difference between the two careers is that Hamilton has been paired with 3 world champions in their prime, so sulkiness or not, it's working out for him.

BTW you wouldn't call a win starting from 14th on the grid a career highlight drive? You're a tough guy to please.

Hamilton did well in Germany to preserve his original set of tyres and still set competitive lap times - bit like Vettel in Hungary. Did he really do anything other than that though?

The circumstances put it right in his lap: it started raining; the leader crashed; the other two cars ahead of him pitted; his teammate was told not to challenge him.

Taking nothing away from Lewis - he didn’t have to do any more, perhaps if he had, he would have - but the others/his team made it very easy for him (FYI it’s his team’s job to make it easy for him, so no problem there). I’ve seen far harder days and better drives for Lewis.

[Andres125sx]

In the rain, its the driver, not the car. When its wet, quality naturally rises to the top.

Sorry but this argument is outdated. With current cars, and 10 years ago it was the same, downforce is the key factor. Obviously drivers are a lot more important than in the dry, as the limit is constantly changing and drivers need to rely on their feelings, but nowadays DF is a lot more important than driver.

Or you think Bottas is a better driver than Lecrerc, Hulkemberg or Alonso?

[WaikeCU]

Hamilton’s been better than Vettel in my view but more through consistently than any massively standout performances, and I still think he gets sulky and despirited when things go against him; we’ve seen a few of them this year.

This is actually a good way to put Lewis. Difference being is that he tends to bounce back with a vengence, where Vettel simply falls to pieces and compounds his mistakes... and sometimes throws his car at other drivers for it or curses Charlie Whitting out or hits another car AFTER the race on the cooldown lap or causes a collision at the start with his teammate.

Hamilton and Vettel combined have won a staggering 55% of the races since 2007, whatever factors one wishes to point out are clearly beyond luck, but a marked difference between the two careers is that Hamilton has been paired with 3 world champions in their prime, so sulkiness or not, it's working out for him.

BTW you wouldn't call a win starting from 14th on the grid a career highlight drive? You're a tough guy to please.

Hamilton did well in Germany to preserve his original set of tyres and still set competitive lap times - bit like Vettel in Hungary. Did he really do anything other than that though?

The circumstances put it right in his lap: it started raining; the leader crashed; the other two cars ahead of him pitted; his teammate was told not to challenge him.

Taking nothing away from Lewis - he didn’t have to do any more, perhaps if he had, he would have - but the others/his team made it very easy for him (FYI it’s his team’s job to make it easy for him, so no problem there). I’ve seen far harder days and better drives for Lewis.

Yes, but he still had to cut through the pack due to his low starting position. That pass on Sirotkin was gutsy though, but what surprises me is that (Or is it just me?) he doesn't meet the Red Bulls in a duel on track at Silverstone and at Hockenheim. Is that due to his team managing his stints and race or just sheer coincidence? I can understand dueling with the Red Bull might lose him vital time.

[Just_a_fan]

See Hamiton's notes on qualifying (what separates him is his feel for the track) and his thoughts on the Ferrari's superior pace in the dry.

Interesting that the grip in some corners is not where one would normally expect it to be in the wet - particularly the last corner where most people are swinging out wide, he stays in tighter and says that's where the grip is. Which begs the question - how does he know that and all of the others don't?

[Just_a_fan]

In the rain, its the driver, not the car. When its wet, quality naturally rises to the top.

Sorry but this argument is outdated. With current cars, and 10 years ago it was the same, downforce is the key factor. Obviously drivers are a lot more important than in the dry, as the limit is constantly changing and drivers need to rely on their feelings, but nowadays DF is a lot more important than driver.

Or you think Bottas is a better driver than Lecrerc, Hulkemberg or Alonso?

The Ferrari has more downforce than the Mercedes, the RedBull has too (according to everyone). So how does that square with your argument? Of course downforce is important because it still gives the grip but on a wet track where aquaplaning is an issue, where the grip levels change constantly, the driver's feel for the car is what enables the lap time to be extracted.