2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

ricciardo to renault. things are beginning to tumble.

Sainz to McLaren, I like it.

I'm actually surprised I don't consider Sainz worse that Riccardo. I do recognize he has more experience.

[diffuser]

I read this on the autosport forum and thought it was really funny...

sopa

The problem for Stoffel is that Alonso destroyed him with a smile. Once Alonso stops smiling, he will recover. Just need to wait...

[Nonserviam85]

yes MCL32 had more downforce than MCL33.

there you go. mcl32 was running max drag downforce. thus slow on the straights. they still are the slowest in the straights. it will take some some better engineers to fix those. hopefully they do, a competitive mclaren is good for the sport

Haha sure. Whisper that to Williams as well, maybe they could had Pole Position in Monaco/Hungary with Merc engine and your max-wing idea, right? That's just wrong and unfounded and you know it. The car has less downforce because things that McLaren was relying on a lot in 2017 got removed for 2018 (monkey seats etc.)

The reason MCL33 is low on speed traps (but still close with Red Bull) is not because of drag, it's because they have less downforce and they run more wing angle to compensate for that (they told it themselves) and yes MCL32 had more downforce than MCL33.

I'm not in this discussion, but this post just threw me for a loop. You're basically saying "The MCL33 is not slow on speed traps because of drag, but because of drag".

It's different to have a "draggy" chassis in general and it's different to have more drag by running big wing angles (all teams will get more drag if they will increase those angles). If for example they have significantly slower top speed than others running the same wing angles as others, then drag is the problem itself (being produced by any other part of the chassis). But if you run high wings because you can't have the downforce you need, then it's not the chassis that's draggy, it's your setup choice. It's not that they run the same wings as the whole grid and still get slower top speed.

Still not making any sense, try harder

[zoroastar]

there you go. mcl32 was running max drag downforce. thus slow on the straights. they still are the slowest in the straights. it will take some some better engineers to fix those. hopefully they do, a competitive mclaren is good for the sport

Haha sure. Whisper that to Williams as well, maybe they could had Pole Position in Monaco/Hungary with Merc engine and your max-wing idea, right? That's just wrong and unfounded and you know it. The car has less downforce because things that McLaren was relying on a lot in 2017 got removed for 2018 (monkey seats etc.)

I'm not in this discussion, but this post just threw me for a loop. You're basically saying "The MCL33 is not slow on speed traps because of drag, but because of drag".

It's different to have a "draggy" chassis in general and it's different to have more drag by running big wing angles (all teams will get more drag if they will increase those angles). If for example they have significantly slower top speed than others running the same wing angles as others, then drag is the problem itself (being produced by any other part of the chassis). But if you run high wings because you can't have the downforce you need, then it's not the chassis that's draggy, it's your setup choice. It's not that they run the same wings as the whole grid and still get slower top speed.

Still not making any sense, try harder

i think that what he is saying is that this year they dont have as much downforce as last year. therefore, they are running with more wing than some other teams in a given race. the drag isnt necessarily caused by the chassis, but by the extra wing they are needing to run to achieve the desired amount of downforce.

[ALO_Power]

Haha sure. Whisper that to Williams as well, maybe they could had Pole Position in Monaco/Hungary with Merc engine and your max-wing idea, right? That's just wrong and unfounded and you know it. The car has less downforce because things that McLaren was relying on a lot in 2017 got removed for 2018 (monkey seats etc.)



It's different to have a "draggy" chassis in general and it's different to have more drag by running big wing angles (all teams will get more drag if they will increase those angles). If for example they have significantly slower top speed than others running the same wing angles as others, then drag is the problem itself (being produced by any other part of the chassis). But if you run high wings because you can't have the downforce you need, then it's not the chassis that's draggy, it's your setup choice. It's not that they run the same wings as the whole grid and still get slower top speed.

Still not making any sense, try harder

i think that what he is saying is that this year they dont have as much downforce as last year. therefore, they are running with more wing than some other teams in a given race. the drag isnt necessarily caused by the chassis, but by the extra wing they are needing to run to achieve the desired amount of downforce.

Exactly. That's why in Monaco for example they didn't get hurt that much by it, because everyone had to run max downforce. Also, if we accept that I'm saying the same thing ("problem is not drag but drag") then we will accept that Every Car With Little Downforce Is Draggy, which is obviously a very wrong assumption.

[Nonserviam85]

You need to realise that you cannot differentiate between drag and wing angle. Drag by itself is irrelevant, the only thing that matters it the lift/drag ratio. The higher tha ratio, the most aerodynamically efficient is the car and this is where Red Bull excels.

[mwillems]

He isn't He is differentiating cause and affect. He is suggesting an issue outside of aero may force them to run high drag. Therefore you don't fix the aero, because it isn't the issue, you fix the underlying mechanical cause, which is forcing you to run a high drag configuration. I think that as an engineer, you would probably need to differentiate that...

Otherwise your basically telling a drowning man to save himself by drinking the water and not to swim....

[godlameroso]

The problem is the aero under the car isn't as good as the A class cars. So they have to compensate for this deficiency by running more aggressive wing angles, mechanically the car works. No one in McLaren is even hinting at a mechanical deficiency. The aero works well in a very narrow speed range, none of the tracks have the majority of corners in this speed range. The A class teams have aero that works better at lower speeds, and allows them to run less aggressive wing angles, which means less drag at speed.

[mwillems]

To be fair, they have been very vague and I would expect them not to come out and say the suspension or whatever is rubbish until a year later, which is what happened in 16. Until there is concrete evidence, I'm not going to rule anything out. They initially stated correlation, but then a Mclaren engineer said "not exactly correlation"... beginning to muddy the waters.

But the point I made above was about the sarcasm being attached to what was a valid opinion, that running a high drag configuration doesn't mean you have a problem with a high drag car. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to fix aero, sometimes it is a consequence of something else, which again, is a valid opinion. Cos that is all we are bandying about here, as technically minded as some people are, is opinions.

[max_speed]

with brawn commenting that they have 2 open seats clearly may suggest that Alonso is calling it quits. 90% of my desire to follow F1 will go away with him but i guess that is right for him with no hope of winning another F1 title . i guess its better for him to leave this 3 tier championship.

[Zynerji]

with brawn commenting that they have 2 open seats clearly may suggest that Alonso is calling it quits. 90% of my desire to follow F1 will go away with him but i guess that is right for him with no hope of winning another F1 title . i guess its better for him to leave this 3 tier championship.

He will forever be remembered as the greatest driver to lose untold championships to his attitude and ego.

[Miha_v]

He will forever be remembered as the greatest driver to lose untold championships to his attitude and ego.

Show me a top driver without an Ego, please.
It has nothing to do with lost championships IMO. This guy squeezed absolute max out of every car he drove. If it weren't for him, Ferrari would be nowhere near battling for the championship between 2010 - 2014. After 5 years, his patience with them run out, no suprise there (though at that time I saw Mclaren Honda as an overly-optimistic project, I still wanted to believe they could match the success of the past). Retrospectively, he had an offer from RB that he declined and would probably have a few more titles under his belt today, but it's always easy to judge looking back.

My guess was 50/50 for him to retire/stay with Mclaren for another year,... but with latest happenings (Ricciardo to Renault), I guess anything can happen.

[ivanlesk]

with brawn commenting that they have 2 open seats clearly may suggest that Alonso is calling it quits. 90% of my desire to follow F1 will go away with him but i guess that is right for him with no hope of winning another F1 title . i guess its better for him to leave this 3 tier championship.

He will forever be remembered as the greatest driver to lose untold championships to his attitude and ego.

By haters, maybe...

[max_speed]

My guess was 50/50 for him to retire/stay with Mclaren for another year,... but with latest happenings (Ricciardo to Renault), I guess anything can happen.

My guess is that he is leaving. if mclaren was trying to get ricciardo for 31mn$ priceTag that does mean Alonso is leaving now way mclaren can afford to pay 2 drivers 30mn$ plus salary. with ricciardo now gone to Renault might force mclaren to persuade him to stay else take sainz and pair him up with norris. Alonso might have recommended "sainz" as his replacement. he has mentored him for very long. my 2cents on sainz/norris pair in mclaren for next year and vandoorne going to sauber.

[RonDennis]

The problem is the aero under the car isn't as good as the A class cars. So they have to compensate for this deficiency by running more aggressive wing angles, mechanically the car works. No one in McLaren is even hinting at a mechanical deficiency. The aero works well in a very narrow speed range, none of the tracks have the majority of corners in this speed range. The A class teams have aero that works better at lower speeds, and allows them to run less aggressive wing angles, which means less drag at speed.

Running more wing could be a solution for a lack of mechnical grip. They're having problems at lower speeds, which suggests they lack mechnical grip as well.