Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

[Tzk]

My guess is that merc runs the most DF on the wing and RedBull the least. Taking the complete package into account (wing + diffusor) i‘m not so sure merc runs the least df.

Also Merc should have the most effective DRS.

[PlatinumZealot]

Don't forget the RedBull DRS is actually very strong to compensate for the weak engine and slim wings.

[Chene_Mostert]

Don't forget the RedBull DRS is actually very strong to compensate for the weak engine and slim wings.

?
Its comments like this that gives "us engineers" a bad name.

[jagunx51]

the bend of the wastegate pipe

[aleks_ader]

If Mercedes do continue running that spoon wing at Monza, they can hardly be scratching their heads about why Ferrari have better straight line speed - running less wing isn’t exactly a new ‘trick’!

Isn't the spoon wing a low drag/downforce solution? As the AoA decreases toward the end plates, the design produces weaker vortices at the tips.

And if you consider the rake of the Ferrari, which of the two wings, overall, has the greater AoA? Mo

Thanks in advance!

Its but just in case if you have same aerofoil as in in the middle of spoon section.

[aleks_ader]

Look just like that...

[wesley123]

Its but just in case if you have same aerofoil as in in the middle of spoon section.

Definitely not. The chord is much shorter than conventional.

That is the big difference here; Red Bull and Ferrari rear wings have the full chord length. The span:chord ratio on the Mercedes would be much higher, and simplified would create the more efficient wing. Mercedes might also enjoy the effects of DRS more.

[Vanja #66]

Sorry, when did they break the laws of physics last year?

When they developed raised side pod intakes with top intake opening. McLaren did it this year with full length floor edge flaps.

[f1316]

I don’t see the shallowness of the Mercedes wing - from those pictures it appears to me that they’re running a similar depth to Ferrari at the outboard section but with a much deeper central section; yes, this is shallower/likely more effecient than a full-length-deep wing - they’re trying to have their cake and eat it - but it’s still (imho) significantly more wing/drag over its entire span than the Ferrari.

[aleks_ader]

Its but just in case if you have same aerofoil as in in the middle of spoon section.

Definitely not. The chord is much shorter than conventional.

That is the big difference here; Red Bull and Ferrari rear wings have the full chord length. The span:chord ratio on the Mercedes would be much higher, and simplified would create the more efficient wing. Mercedes might also enjoy the effects of DRS more.

Yeah I m talking just conceptially and not Monzas wing.

[Vanja #66]

Definitely not. The chord is much shorter than conventional.

That is the big difference here; Red Bull and Ferrari rear wings have the full chord length. The span:chord ratio on the Mercedes would be much higher, and simplified would create the more efficient wing. Mercedes might also enjoy the effects of DRS more.

Efficient wing means you have a high lift/drag ratio. You get lift from plan area and you get drag from frontal area. If you reduce plan area and your frontal area isn't reduced (as much) you can hardly increase wing efficiency. Especially with that AoA and camber.

[tranquility2k4]

I have a bit of a 'novice' technical question that hopefully someone can clarify. I can see in the comparison of the Monza wings for Merc, Ferrari and RB that Merc appear to be running more downforce when just looking at the vertical flap of the wing, however, when looking at the horizontal flap, as has been noted by others, this is significantly shorter compared with Ferrari and RB. Sorry I'm not sure of the official names for these two parts - what are they? Also I always think of 'how much rear wing someone is running' as being based on the vertical part - what is the role of the horizontal part and how much would this increase / reduce downforce if it was increased / reduced in length.

In short - will Merc's horizontal piece being shorter result in a large reduction of downforce and overall will it mean they maybe have less downforce from the rear wing than Ferrari's configuration?

[rscsr]

I have a bit of a 'novice' technical question that hopefully someone can clarify. I can see in the comparison of the Monza wings for Merc, Ferrari and RB that Merc appear to be running more downforce when just looking at the vertical flap of the wing, however, when looking at the horizontal flap, as has been noted by others, this is significantly shorter compared with Ferrari and RB. Sorry I'm not sure of the official names for these two parts - what are they? Also I always think of 'how much rear wing someone is running' as being based on the vertical part - what is the role of the horizontal part and how much would this increase / reduce downforce if it was increased / reduced in length.

In short - will Merc's horizontal piece being shorter result in a large reduction of downforce and overall will it mean they maybe have less downforce from the rear wing than Ferrari's configuration?

Generally simplified speaking, the horizontal part of the wing provides surface where the pressure provides usable downforce. Therefore generally you want to increase the this part as much as possible, because it "only" provides downforce and no induced drag, ergo downforce for "free". The vertical part of the wing, the flap, generates the pressure differential between the top and bottom surface.
But the pressure difference between the top and bottom surface always creates a vortex on the wing tips. This is "bad" since you put energy into a change of airflow, that doesn't provide you with downforce. To lessen this effect, you can decrease the pressure difference towards the wing tips, or as in the F1 case, you "create" a counteracting vortex (the slots in the rear wing endplates).
This also means that a narrower wing (aka the Mercedes design) should be more efficient.
But all this is very simplified and all the interactions on a design can produce very different effects. (I think that the Red Bull is running such a flat wing because the general flow field are going more over the top of the sidepods, ergo they have a tendency to go down. This means that the effective angle of attack is higher than it looks. While on the Mercedes and Ferrari it seems to go much more around the sidepods, therefore the stream has less downwards momentum)

[siskue2005]

I have a bit of a 'novice' technical question that hopefully someone can clarify. I can see in the comparison of the Monza wings for Merc, Ferrari and RB that Merc appear to be running more downforce when just looking at the vertical flap of the wing, however, when looking at the horizontal flap, as has been noted by others, this is significantly shorter compared with Ferrari and RB. Sorry I'm not sure of the official names for these two parts - what are they? Also I always think of 'how much rear wing someone is running' as being based on the vertical part - what is the role of the horizontal part and how much would this increase / reduce downforce if it was increased / reduced in length.

In short - will Merc's horizontal piece being shorter result in a large reduction of downforce and overall will it mean they maybe have less downforce from the rear wing than Ferrari's configuration?

I think the upper element looks like same on all (I might be wrong here)......but the lower element is bigger in Merc which makes the top one look smaller

[aral]

Discussion about gurney flap on Ferrari has been removed as it is off topic, which is....Mercedes AMG F1 W09 !