2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

[Vanja #66]

ok then please show me the data that Ferrari has slower PU in relation to Merc

Yeah, no problem, lemme just find those e-mails Toto and Maurizio sent me with their torque curve charts.

Four years spent hearing "We have weaker PU" BS from Ferrari and Red Bull. You'll live. It's close and that's the only thing we want in the sport.

Only it wasn't BS from 14-16, wasn't it? Last year it was close enough that PU didn't matter, Merc had batter chassis and that's it. Ferrari lost on chassis side, not on PU and they didn't moan constantly about PU. If PU was at this year's level, it would have been closer, but once Merc got the hold of Pirelli tyres, it was evident which car was faster.

Ferrari was full of BS before, every winter they were pumped about their car and ended up far enough in Australia, and a lot of people hated it. Some people just hate BS, no matter where it came from.

[Harvester]

yeah i dont know why he is unhappy.... as long as he is in front of Lewis...crybaby much

Sadly i dont think Ferrari will let Kimi win the race
or
Will they dare to pull out team orders and face the shame in front of the tifosi?

This is what I don't understand. In my opinion they would be very stupid to let Kimi win if they have chance to swap places. Kimi doesn't have chance to win championship. So why the hell would Ferrari let him win. Maybe so for Kimi to feel good. I know that Mercedes wouldn't have such problem. Bottas used to let Hamilton twice in one race. And last year when he gave back position to Bottas in Hungary people almost called him saint but he lost only three points there.

that is what we call "give respect and take respect"
it is not about the 3 points, it is about the heart to do that.....and surely that reflected on Bottas, when the time comes Bottas will do that for him (germany he obeyed instantly)... Vettel should do that, he should respect Kimi's pole and congratulate him (which he never did...all he said was "we will talk later").
If Vettel had done any such thing in the past, then Kimi will do it even without any teamorders ....but as a prat he has proved time and time again that he would never help his teamamtes (Multi21 etc).

Come on. I am not a fan of Vettel at all but I try to be objective. Maybe in Austria this year Ferrari should have ordered Kimi to let Vettel and then Vettel gives back position so that would be very good for Vettels reputation as for Hamilton last year in Hungary. However, Ferrari didn't ask Rai to let Vettel at all. Bottas used to have 20 seconds on Hamilton and then slow down and wait for Ham to let him pass that's how much protection Hamilton has. Last year and this year there is no doubt that Hamilton had a lot more help from Bottas than Vettel from Rai.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hopefully we won't hear "We have weaker PU" BS from Mercedes and Hamilton anymore.

Great to see Kimi back on top.

Why? We still lost 1.5 tenths in sector 3!!

He was purple in S1 which has 2 long straights with a 1 braking and 1 traction zone. S3 has the ascari chicanes and Parabolica in it (the quickest corners on the track) Both PUs are very close to each other in Q3, in the race Merc are better going by Spa (Ferrari were better because of how much time they were gaining in the traction zones, but were constantly bleeding time on the straights). Before the spec 3 Ferrari had a small advantage. That's why Merc were so puzzled after spa, because they knew how big of a step they made but it was not enough. Vettel also seemed pretty happy with the improvement in his Spec 3, but i feel Merc a tiny bit ahead now.

All evidence proves otherwise. Combination of chassis and PU. But certainly the Ferrari PU is widely regarded as superior since summer.

[MtthsMlw]

Vettel said that giving the slipstream was not out of the ordinary, because it was Raikkonen's turn to run second on the track.

"We have an order that changes every week," he explained. "This weekend was Kimi to go second, simple."

Rather than blame the slipstream issue, Vettel believed that he ultimately lost out because of a series of mistakes over his final qualifying lap.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/unha ... 69/?nrt=54

[siskue2005]

This is what I don't understand. In my opinion they would be very stupid to let Kimi win if they have chance to swap places. Kimi doesn't have chance to win championship. So why the hell would Ferrari let him win. Maybe so for Kimi to feel good. I know that Mercedes wouldn't have such problem. Bottas used to let Hamilton twice in one race. And last year when he gave back position to Bottas in Hungary people almost called him saint but he lost only three points there.

that is what we call "give respect and take respect"
it is not about the 3 points, it is about the heart to do that.....and surely that reflected on Bottas, when the time comes Bottas will do that for him (germany he obeyed instantly)... Vettel should do that, he should respect Kimi's pole and congratulate him (which he never did...all he said was "we will talk later").
If Vettel had done any such thing in the past, then Kimi will do it even without any teamorders ....but as a prat he has proved time and time again that he would never help his teamamtes (Multi21 etc).

Come on. I am not a fan of Vettel at all but I try to be objective. Maybe in Austria this year Ferrari should have ordered Kimi to let Vettel and then Vettel gives back position so that would be very good for Vettels reputation as for Hamilton last year in Hungary. However, Ferrari didn't ask Rai to let Vettel at all.

at austria it was because Lewis was out of the GP.. Bottas used to have 20 seconds on Hamilton and then slow down and wait for Ham to let him pass that's how much protection Hamilton has.

lol...when did that happen?

Last year and this year there is no doubt that Hamilton had a lot more help from Bottas than Vettel from Rai.

really? dont remember Bottas screwed up from lead to let Lewis win.

[Juzh]

Why? We still lost 1.5 tenths in sector 3!!

He was purple in S1 which has 2 long straights with a 1 braking and 1 traction zone. S3 has the ascari chicanes and Parabolica in it (the quickest corners on the track) Both PUs are very close to each other in Q3, in the race Merc are better going by Spa (Ferrari were better because of how much time they were gaining in the traction zones, but were constantly bleeding time on the straights). Before the spec 3 Ferrari had a small advantage. That's why Merc were so puzzled after spa, because they knew how big of a step they made but it was not enough. Vettel also seemed pretty happy with the improvement in his Spec 3, but i feel Merc a tiny bit ahead now.

All evidence proves otherwise. Combination of chassis and PU. But certainly the Ferrari PU is widely regarded as superior since summer.

Since spa I don't think ferrari has any sort of meaningful advantage. If anything, mercedes still has more ERS deployment since they're always faster at the end of just about any straight, all this with running visibly more wing levels.

[Harvester]

that is what we call "give respect and take respect"
it is not about the 3 points, it is about the heart to do that.....and surely that reflected on Bottas, when the time comes Bottas will do that for him (germany he obeyed instantly)... Vettel should do that, he should respect Kimi's pole and congratulate him (which he never did...all he said was "we will talk later").
If Vettel had done any such thing in the past, then Kimi will do it even without any teamorders ....but as a prat he has proved time and time again that he would never help his teamamtes (Multi21 etc).

Come on. I am not a fan of Vettel at all but I try to be objective. Maybe in Austria this year Ferrari should have ordered Kimi to let Vettel and then Vettel gives back position so that would be very good for Vettels reputation as for Hamilton last year in Hungary. However, Ferrari didn't ask Rai to let Vettel at all.

at austria it was because Lewis was out of the GP.. Bottas used to have 20 seconds on Hamilton and then slow down and wait for Ham to let him pass that's how much protection Hamilton has.

lol...when did that happen?

Last year and this year there is no doubt that Hamilton had a lot more help from Bottas than Vettel from Rai.

really? dont remember Bottas screwed up from lead to let Lewis win.

When was Kimi screwed up from lead to let Vet win?

[Sevach]

https://i.imgur.com/hbCYADR.jpg

I think Mercedes and Ferrari use their energy differently around this track, Mercedes runs aggressive in S1 and later has to save a bit.

Kimi faster than Vettel everywhere showing the benefit of the tow.

[siskue2005]

Come on. I am not a fan of Vettel at all but I try to be objective. Maybe in Austria this year Ferrari should have ordered Kimi to let Vettel and then Vettel gives back position so that would be very good for Vettels reputation as for Hamilton last year in Hungary. However, Ferrari didn't ask Rai to let Vettel at all.

at austria it was because Lewis was out of the GP.. Bottas used to have 20 seconds on Hamilton and then slow down and wait for Ham to let him pass that's how much protection Hamilton has.

lol...when did that happen?

Last year and this year there is no doubt that Hamilton had a lot more help from Bottas than Vettel from Rai.

really? dont remember Bottas screwed up from lead to let Lewis win.

When was Kimi screwed up from lead to let Vet win?

As you were talking about 2017 and 2018
Monaco 2017
Hungary 2017

[siskue2005]

https://i.imgur.com/hbCYADR.jpg

Mercedes saves energy in S2 or something?

Kimi faster than Vettel everywhere showing the benefit of the tow.

Pole lap


I don't see how the tow helped him all lap
Vettel was so far away

[Sevach]

https://i.imgur.com/hbCYADR.jpg

Mercedes saves energy in S2 or something?

Kimi faster than Vettel everywhere showing the benefit of the tow.

Pole lap
https://youtu.be/kSIdpN2HZDM

I don't see how the tow helped him all lap
Vettel was so far away

That's how it's done really, you get a small boost down the straights without effing you up at Parabolica.

Edit: For the record i don't know if that was worth the .2 tenths Vettel needed to post a better time than Kimi's actual lap, probably not, but i do think that the pendulum swing from Kimi loosing it and Vettel gaining it might've changed the order on the grid.

[siskue2005]

Mercedes saves energy in S2 or something?

Kimi faster than Vettel everywhere showing the benefit of the tow.

Pole lap
https://youtu.be/kSIdpN2HZDM

I don't see how the tow helped him all lap
Vettel was so far away

That's how it's done really, you get a small boost down the straights without effing you up at parabolica.

look at where kimi places his car.....he is nowhere in line with Vettels car in the final straight

i was actualy quoting someone who said Kimi gained everywhere from tow...that is infact false...if he had done that he must have lost similar amounts in the corners too.
may

[Edax]

Sky commentators talking about why vettel is pissed off. Saying he towed kimi to pole. But vettel was perfectly placed behind Lewis for the same tow.

He had 2x the distance to hamilton than kini had to vettel.

I think this is the main point, Kimi had the perfect tow while Sebastian was too far from Hamilton, with such a small difference between all of them this is the point where Sebastian has lost the pole.

Anyway, it has been an awesome pole, Mercedes was closer than some people expected and Bottas played perfectly well the second driver role. Tomorrow Sebastian is in a very difficult place because Hamilton can overtake him in the start. I think that Ferrari should try to make a clean start, letting Kimi maintain the position in the first lap while Sebastian tries to cover his own position. Try to switch the positions as soon as the race starts would be a great mistake because Lewis would benefict from this situation.

By the way, awesome work by Carlos though tomorrow he will suffer a lot with a slow car on the straights.

I think that is difficult to design. Vettel usually has a fast start and Kimi is relatively cautious goin into turn one. Vettel will most likely get an opportunity in turn one. Could become very interesting in the first chicane.

[LionKing]

lol...when did that happen?


really? dont remember Bottas screwed up from lead to let Lewis win.

When was Kimi screwed up from lead to let Vet win?

As you were talking about 2017 and 2018
Monaco 2017
Hungary 2017

At Monaco Kimi had pole, he was doing 1.17+ laps before his pit stop, Vettel did 1.15s after Kimi pitted. Kimi had every chance to win.

At Hungry Kimi was never in the lead. The crooked steering wheel was costing Vettel about a second but it wasn't enough in Hungary to make a pass. Hamilton couldn't even have a single pass attempt when he caught up with Vettel and Kimi.

Vettel waited many laps behind Kimi China last year. This year spent his last 25 laps withing 2 seconds of Kimi at Austria. At germany he waited 10 unnecessary laps with fresh tires behind Kimi.

Bottas had a P2 at Silverstone, they didn't pit him but Lewis and Bottas ended up 4th. That was the only way for Mercedes to bring Lewis in front, ....

[siskue2005]

He had 2x the distance to hamilton than kini had to vettel.

I think this is the main point, Kimi had the perfect tow while Sebastian was too far from Hamilton, with such a small difference between all of them this is the point where Sebastian has lost the pole.

Anyway, it has been an awesome pole, Mercedes was closer than some people expected and Bottas played perfectly well the second driver role. Tomorrow Sebastian is in a very difficult place because Hamilton can overtake him in the start. I think that Ferrari should try to make a clean start, letting Kimi maintain the position in the first lap while Sebastian tries to cover his own position. Try to switch the positions as soon as the race starts would be a great mistake because Lewis would benefict from this situation.

By the way, awesome work by Carlos though tomorrow he will suffer a lot with a slow car on the straights.

I think that is difficult to design. Vettel usually has a fast start and Kimi is relatively cautious goin into turn one. Vettel will most likely get an opportunity in turn one. Could become very interesting in the first chicane.

but Monza first corner is nowhere like Spa, it is really difficult to overtake from the dirty side.....i think it has never been done before (correct me if i am wrong) only Lewis lost in 2014 and 2016 when he had those dreadful starts

other than that i dont remember anyone done that in last 10 15 years legitly (correct me if i am wrong)