2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Restomaniac
Restomaniac
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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strad wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 21:35
I’m sorry but if you force another car to go via the polystyrene bollards into turn 1 in normal racing in Monza then you had better be ready for a penalty. I don’t care who you are.
.
There is a long history of top drivers pulling such stunts. From Farina to Senna, to Schumacher. Black Jack wasn't called that because of his gentlemanly conduct. All without penalty :wink:
Different times. Anyone currently pulling that trick gets a penalty.

foxmulder_ms
foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Jolle wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 20:56
Restomaniac wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 20:42
Wynters wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 20:09
Perhaps 'Id' would be a better word and I suspect all successful sportspeople share that 'weakness'. If you don't have that innate confidence and drive to beat your peers then I think it would be difficult to sustain the extreme level of commitment and performance needed. In order to maintain that, I think you need to be able to prove to yourself that you can outperform your peers. Easiest way to do that is to beat them, worst outcome is to have them outperform you.
I suspect Hamilton thinks he could've defended better initially and he definitely performed worse at the restart despite having managed to 'go' with Vettel when the leader floored it. His performance here will have thoroughly buried any slight doubts that might have begun gnawing at him following those mistakes.
As have plenty of drivers. I have quite a lot of sympathy when it's done in the heat of the moment and during the unanticipated dueling a driver finds himself operating beyond his skill / decision making ability for an instant (see Max and Bottas this race and numerous examples in previous GPs) but I struggle to understand the lack of scenario 'gaming' done to cover eventualities on a first lap or a SC restart. There are essentially two likely overtaking points and it appears that Vettel and Ferrari didn't bother to think about either of them beforehand. It just boggles my mind.

Max's decision to continue to screw himself after the incident whilst simultaneously not hurting Bottas in any way confuses me the same way. It's outside the instant the mistake was made so surely logic should kick in and, if it habitually won't, then that should've been identified as an issue and (much as Smedley did with Massa) his engineer should be placed in a recognised position to handle it for him. i.e. "Stop being an idiot, you aren't hurting him at all you are only hurting yourself." It's genuinely concerning that the engineer was obviously convinced that Max was too childish to accept not only his failure but also to accept that blocking Bottas would cost Bottas nothing. Otherwise he would have explained it to him and Max would've finished fourth.
That’s what I don’t get. Exactly who does he think he was causing an issue for?
The Stewards-Probably laughing their what-nots off over the reaction.
Bottas-definitely laughing his what-nots off and being more than happy to sit there and pick up 3rd.
Vettel-definitely laughing his what-nots off and being more than happy to make up the time and pick up 4th.

‘I know I’m going to lose time to Vettel but I don’t care’ was probably one of the strangest statements I have ever heard. It defies any logic to hurt nobody but himself and his team.
I can imagine the team disagrees. RedBull likes fighters. For a driver there is a order of importance for finishing. 1. a win, 2nd in front of your team mate and 3 podium and 4 points. VER is out of contention of the WC and got his teammate covered. A podium was too far away after the penalty and points were there whatever he decided. Now he and his team can stand up tall, one of the Mercedeses needed a penalty to beat us today. Although not really true, he deserved this penalty and with a few inches more room Bottas might had a good overtake, it's the spirit they love and push.

The alternative is 20 boring drivers who won't fight, leave lots and lots of space and drive around in the exact order of their cars speed.
RedBull is just trying to create a pop idol to sell drinks. F1 is for advertisement mainly, I got that, but it is also a sport. Redbull does not care about the sport, they care about creating a mystical role model which young people can relate and hence buy their drinks. Once their consultant team tells that their research shows that a more mature, potential champion like Ric sells more drinks it will be around half a second to boot Vestappen but that is not the case :)

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Sieper
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Guys, at some point it is time to give it a rest, this used to be part of racing:

https://youtu.be/qNrj3PJZ3IQ

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henry
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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sosic2121 wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:41
henry wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:35
Juzh wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:21
here's hulk overtaking gasly at 366 kmh by dumping almost the entire battery on the main straight. 366 is the highest we've seen in monza since the V10 days I believe.

https://streamable.com/mjibl
https://streamable.com/mjibl
I take it you are referring to the vertical bar on the left of the Renault display?

He is at full throttle for approximately 10 seconds after parabolica. So it’s unlikely he consumed more than about 2MJ, probably much less.

So I don’t think the bar is full scale ES SOC, nor is it ES>K which would reset for the new lap. So I wonder what it’s showing. Whatever it is he used most of it during that pass.
It seems it's going up while breaking.

Hulk goes flat out for 15s.
If he was using 180kw(overtake button) on the main straight, that's 2.7MJ.
It seems battery bar(?) was depleting faster on main straight then it was before parabolica.
I agree entirely. I didn’t do a good job of estimating the time on the main straight.

The depletion rate looks very low on the approach to parabolica and even though he brakes for 2 seconds it doesn’t go up much, if at all. I measured just over 3 seconds braking into the chicane which would be around 400kJ max, and that seems to recoup about 1 sixth of the bar that was used on the straight.

Unfortunately I don’t have any picture editing tools available at the moment to measure the bar and get some more accurate numbers but it does look as though it is showing SOC.

From the finish line to the braking point is around 10 seconds so that would be 1.2 MJ of the ES>K allowance of 4MJ.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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strad
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Sieper wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 22:30
Guys, at some point it is time to give it a rest, this used to be part of racing:

https://youtu.be/qNrj3PJZ3IQ
.
Right on Sieper.. Apparently some either have short memories or are newbies.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Not sure if this has been posted already:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQL4dlt-vdo
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Jolle
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Just_a_fan wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 23:22
Not sure if this has been posted already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQL4dlt-vdo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQL4dlt-vdo
Re-watching Alonso-Magnussen.... wasn't that Alonso off track and returning on track in an un safe manner?

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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strad wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 23:18
Sieper wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 22:30
Guys, at some point it is time to give it a rest, this used to be part of racing:

https://youtu.be/qNrj3PJZ3IQ
.
Right on Sieper.. Apparently some either have short memories or are newbies.
Or for people with very short memories:

Last edited by Jolle on 04 Sep 2018, 00:15, edited 2 times in total.

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djos
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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tranquility2k4 wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 13:54
I have to say I was disappointed in Max's reaction to his manoeuvrer on Bottas. It strikes me that he's still incredibly immature or too arrogant for his own good in his reaction to being told about the penalty. I don't see how he can become world champion with this attitude. Look at Vettel - he's costing himself points with certain mistakes and I feel Verstappen in the same situation may do this even more often on current form. I thought he'd got over this kind of behaviour after the early season shenanigans.

On another note if Vettel's mistakes do cost him the WDC then this is arguably the 2nd in a row he will have lost (although last year there were mechanical issues too). Surely some people at Ferrari must be thinking if Alonso was there they would have won, or would have been much closer. This may sound ridiculous, but if Vettel messes up again over the next race or two, could we see Ferrari make a dramatic U-turn and sign up Alonso to be his team mate for 2019? If not next year then surely if Vettel doesn't deliver in 2019 they would consider him for 2020?
I agree with your logic, Vettel just isn't his old computer like self from the RedBull championship era which is a shame. The title fight should be a lot closer this year but unfortunately it isn't (still one of the best for many years).

Alonso is at least a known quantity to Ferrari and he's shown year after year he can make the most of his cars, even if they are complete rubbish! I'd love to see an Alonso v Vettel year at Ferrari, I think Alonso would beat Vettel over the whole season. Then Alonso could retire on a high and possibly with his 3rd WDC.

Ps I never used to be an Alonso fan boi, but the last 5 years have really impressed me - how he stays motivated week in week out is truly astonishing.
"In downforce we trust"

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djos
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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iotar__ wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 19:01
How are these not 2 defensive moves on the straight against a tow?
https://i.imgur.com/stIxSXM.jpg
Compare Raikkonen - Hamilton defending or any other overtake.

Verstappen should get another penalty for not understanding basics of rules and racing. FIA allowed him to cheat so many times, including changing the rules afterwards to cover cheating, that you can't blame only him.
That isn't 2 two moves, it's one defensive move followed by a return to the racing line - the illegal part is not leaving enough room for Bottas who was already alongside and colliding with him.
"In downforce we trust"

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TAG
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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strad wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 23:18
Sieper wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 22:30
Guys, at some point it is time to give it a rest, this used to be part of racing:

https://youtu.be/qNrj3PJZ3IQ
.
Right on Sieper.. Apparently some either have short memories or are newbies.
Exactly, if you're going to pull this move then you do it exactly as this, 1) leaving the inch perfect amount of space, and 2) not having pulled ham fisted blocking attempts previously where Charlie had already given the team a warning about the actions. Well done finding this video. ;)
माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

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yelistener
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Juzh wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:21
here's hulk overtaking gasly at 366 kmh by dumping almost the entire battery on the main straight. 366 is the highest we've seen in monza since the V10 days I believe.

https://streamable.com/mjibl
https://streamable.com/mjibl
Hulk got the double slipstream, from Gasly and a Ferrari. And yes according to the official speed trap, 2018 has the highest speed reading with Perez's 362km/h. Hulk was actually the 3rd clocked at 357km/h. Obviously his speed dropped a lot at the speed trap point, due to getting out of the slipstream.

Justthatek
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Just_a_fan wrote:Not sure if this has been posted already:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQL4dlt-vdo
I did chuckle at this bit.

Image

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
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Joined: 16 May 2016, 01:09
Location: Hull

Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post

Jolle wrote:
04 Sep 2018, 00:07
strad wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 23:18
Sieper wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 22:30
Guys, at some point it is time to give it a rest, this used to be part of racing:

https://youtu.be/qNrj3PJZ3IQ
.
Right on Sieper.. Apparently some either have short memories or are newbies.
Or for people with very short memories:

https://youtu.be/sE-j-NpdlT0
I called for a penalty then too.

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
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Location: Hull

Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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TAG wrote:
04 Sep 2018, 01:33
strad wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 23:18
Sieper wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 22:30
Guys, at some point it is time to give it a rest, this used to be part of racing:

https://youtu.be/qNrj3PJZ3IQ
.
Right on Sieper.. Apparently some either have short memories or are newbies.
Exactly, if you're going to pull this move then you do it exactly as this, 1) leaving the inch perfect amount of space, and 2) not having pulled ham fisted blocking attempts previously where Charlie had already given the team a warning about the actions. Well done finding this video. ;)
Exactly. After being told that ‘he’d played his joker’ he does it again.