2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[dren]

STR are no more a test bed for the Honda PU than Mercedes is a test bed for their PU and Ferrari for their PU. They are all trying to optimize set-ups and tuning during practice for the race.

[zac510]

Yes, so it's just a race engine really. They're not doing any extra miles in 2018 to try and make the engine better in 2019.

[!Technical]

They're also doing their utmost to stay ahead of Sauber in the constructor's championship. Achieving that will mean more prize money which will surely help fund the 50 front wings they'll make next year.

[dren]

Yes, so it's just a race engine really. They're not doing any extra miles in 2018 to try and make the engine better in 2019.

That's why they have dynos in Sakura.

[zac510]

... but keep getting vibrations etc when putting it into a real chassis.

Anyway my point was that various forum posters keep presuming that STR is a test bed for RBR2019, but the evidence, in the form of practice lap count, is that they are not.

[Wouter]

... but keep getting vibrations etc when putting it into a real chassis.

Anyway my point was that various forum posters keep presuming that STR is a test bed for RBR2019, but the evidence, in the form of practice lap count, is that they are not.

These articles are from last summer and there are a lot more articles about it on the www :

Red Bull have given permission to Honda to use Toro Rosso to test updates throughout the remainder of 2018, even if it means grid penalties for the junior team.

With Red Bull Racing dropping Renault power units in favour of Honda for 2019, the focus of the entire Red Bull motorsport division has switched to helping Honda improve their engines ahead of the Japanese manufacturer’s full scale supply to Red Bull Racing & Toro Rosso.

According to Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport, Dr. Helmut Marko has given permission to Honda to use Toro Rosso as guinea pigs for testing for the remainder of this season in order to give them as much time as possible to improve for next year: “Of course we leave the decision to Honda,”

“But if they find a tenth with the development, of course, they can try the expansion stage right in the race. Even if that means we’re taking penalties for it.”

16-07-2018 Rollendes Honda-Versuchslabor

Red Bull will dem Motorenpartner von 2019 die Möglichkeit geben, neue Teile zeitnah auf der Strecke zu testen. „Wir überlassen die Entscheidung natürlich Honda“, erklärte Teamberater Helmut Marko. „Aber wenn sie mit der Weiterentwicklung eine Zehntel finden, können sie die Ausbaustufe natürlich gleich im Rennen ausprobieren. Auch wenn das bedeutet, dass wir dafür Strafen kassieren.“

Auch wenn Hartley und Gasly es nicht gerne hören, ist die Taktik nachvollziehbar. Wenn Red Bull 2019 um den Titel fahren will, ist es wichtig, dass Honda mit der bestmöglichen Ausgangsbasis in die Saison startet. Da ist es verkraftbar, dass zur Erhöhung des Entwicklungstempos ein paar WM-Punkte beim Juniorteam geopfert werden. Bei nur zwei Autos, die für die Japaner in dieser Saison Daten sammeln können, muss jedes Rennen optimal genutzt werden.

Translated:

Although Hartley and Gasly do not like to hear it, the tactic is understandable. If Red Bull 2019 wants to go for the title, it's important that Honda start the season with the best possible base. Since it is manageable that to increase the pace of development a few world championship points in the junior team are sacrificed. With only two cars that can gather data for the Japanese this season, every race has to be used optimally.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -red-bull/

[zac510]

Thanks Wouter!

[marmer]

Just a thought. Is this the reason why the car has had very few updates. They want to see the performance increase from the engine with a stable platform changing aero around could alter the figure slightly

[gandharva]

The reason for lack of car updates ist lack of James Key.

[Wouter]

Just a thought. Is this the reason why the car has had very few updates. They want to see the performance increase from the engine with a stable platform changing aero around could alter the figure slightly

@ Marmer, exactly. The absence of James Key has nothing to do with it.

@ zac510, you'r welcome.

[Jaisonas]

I'll never get tired of listening to honda's onboards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmEZGKfo50o

[gandharva]

Anybody who thinks that todays teams are not able to differentiate between chassis and engine updates is probably still living in the early 90s. ^^

[marmer]

Anybody who thinks that todays teams are not able to differentiate between chassis and engine updates is probably still living in the early 90s. ^^

I have to disagree.

Although they will know of any power increase from the engine purely from Dyno numbers

Having a stable platform to compare with what the previous version managed gives you far better real world data.
If you upgrade say the aero package to give you a less draggy car it would make any improvement from the engine seem far better. Or you could over assume how good your new aero is if you believe the improvement from the engine is minor when perhaps its not.

Think of Toro rosso position not exactly chasing for wins and titles while they are still competitive in the midfield taking steady progress one part at a time is better than changing loads of parts.

McLaren are a team that have fallen foul to this over the years no idea what's fixed the car or what's not working because they changed too much at once.

And it's not like they have dropped back too much which suggests the engine development is good.

[gandharva]

Just to simplify things for you. Ever heard of the theory that you could update the engine at a specific race and then update the chassis at the next one? Also there are way more other ways to separate chassis and engine development in terms of performance gain, if your wind tunnel and CFD analysis is not completely out of the window.

Sorry, but again, this theory is nonsense. The loss of James Key hit them hard in terms of chassis development and even more in terms of racecraft and strategy development.

[Morteza]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1053005077584244738