Specifications of 50 famous racing engines up to 1994

[saviour stivala]

The 65 degree bank angle V6 Dino FERRARI engine was the world’s only 65 degree V6, the extra 5 degree permitted straight intakes. This engine was not a true V6 but had separate crankpins for every con-rod. The crankpins were offset by 55 degrees within every pair of cylinders and so gave even firing as well as an even distance between firing pulses per bank. This engine was produced in many sizes and with many upgrades. In the 1950 a V6 was a virtually unknown engine type. Surprising it was also the adoption of both a 60 degree V angle as well as a 65 degree V angle with the use of a crankshafts of 3 crankpins as well as a crankshaft of 6 crankpins. Development started with a 1.5-litre formula 2 engine, the next up was a 1860 cc engine, and then a 2195 cc and after that a 2417 cc, this was for first formula 1 season in which aviation petrol was mandated. The 65 degree bank angle FERRARI V6 was not only a DINO but a very smooth engine.

[Tommy Cookers]

...... Surprising it was also the adoption of both a 60 degree V angle as well as a 65 degree V angle with the use of a crankshafts of 3 crankpins as well as a crankshaft of 6 crankpins......

so are you saying that Ferrari made a 60 or 65 degree 3 crankpin V6 ?

their 1961 120 degree F1 V6 of course had 3 crankpins
as did their turbo F1 V6s of 120 deg in 1981 and 90 deg in 1987 (having studied smaller angles at that time)
and TAG offered McLaren angles from 60 to 90 deg (80 deg was chosen as with Honda)

[saviour stivala]

...... Surprising it was also the adoption of both a 60 degree V angle as well as a 65 degree V angle with the use of a crankshafts of 3 crankpins as well as a crankshaft of 6 crankpins......

so are you saying that Ferrari made a 60 or 65 degree 3 crankpin V6 ?

their 1961 120 degree F1 V6 of course had 3 crankpins
as did their turbo F1 V6s of 120 deg in 1981 and 90 deg in 1987 (having studied smaller angles at that time)
and TAG offered McLaren angles from 60 to 90 deg (80 deg was chosen as with Honda)

What I was saying was that the FERRARI Dino V6 was not only made in many sizes but also in 60 degree as well as in 65 degree bank angle plus with a three pin crankpin crankshaft (con-rod journals) as well as with a six pin crankpin crankshaft.

[saviour stivala]

FERRARI’s 1961 120 degree bank angle FI V6 was not a ‘DINO’ the subject of this discussion, and neither was the TAG badged Porsche.

[Tommy Cookers]

What I was saying was that the FERRARI Dino V6 was not only made in many sizes but also in 60 degree as well as in 65 degree bank angle plus with a three pin crankpin crankshaft (con-rod journals) as well as with a six pin crankpin crankshaft.

if there was ever a version with 3 crankpins we might think of the Franco Rocchi developed version for the Tasman series
the unsuccessful 1967-9 F2 (Rocchi version of course production-derived) Dino 166 engine had 18 (then 24) valves
the (Rocchi) Tasman Dino was a lengthened F2 chassis with 2404cc and had 18 valves/285 hp then 24 valves/305 hp
it won the Tasman series once for Chris Amon and once for Graeme Lawrence
Bandini's 1966 F1 V6 car had 18 valves and was the precursor

all photos seem to show the same rather large block stagger indicative of the 6 pin design
unless we are to imagine these engines had the large block stagger but only 3 crankpins

where's the evidence for a 3 crankpin engine - ever ?


btw
Ferrarichat website says the 1958 296s wasn't a Dino but a 60 deg 'half a Colombo V12' - but I guessed 'half a Lampredi V12'

[saviour stivala]

The 60 degree bank angle V6 Dino 156 engine was shorter than the 65 degree bank angle V6.

[saviour stivala]

“Apart from its use in production and racing cars by Lancia, a six in vee form was a virtually unknown engine type in the 1950’s, its adoption was surprising and exciting step for FERRARI, although of course it could be seen as half of one of his famous V12’S, no less surprising was the adoption of a vee angle of 65 degree between the cylinder banks, as opposed to the 60 angle that would give equal firing impulses with connecting rods sharing a common crankpin (big-end journal). IN FACT ENGINES OF BOTH CONFIGURATIONS WERE BUILD AND TESTED. The wider angle was chosen to allow more room for inlet ducting and carburetors”.

[hollus]

A little mid-thread reminder that the content of this thread is essentially a shortened version of the content of the book “Classic Racing Engines” by Karl Ludvigsen:
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/automo ... tents.html
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-Racing ... +Ludvigsen

Further explanation in the first post of the thread:
viewtopic.php?p=805009#p805009

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1960 Coventry Climax FPF 2.5-litre four

1960 Coventry Climax FPF 2.5-litre four: A robust design cylinder block which like the cylinder head was cast by Birmal of RR50 aluminum alloy, the barrel shaped crankcase extended down 89mm bellow crankshaft centerline, was finned along the sides, a shallow light alloy finned sump closed the bottom.
Cylinder liners were pinched at top of block and sealed by laminated cooper rings, liners were a close fit at bottom of water jacket and sealed by O-rings. 10 main studs attached the head with 4 additional studs on the exhaust side were water flowed from the block to head.
Steel main bearing caps with 2 bolts + being cross-bolted to sides of block. Oil pump carrier was also bolted across the 3 center main bearing caps for added bottom-end stiffness. Forged I-section EN24 steel con-rods with caps retained by half-inch bolts were used. All bearings were thin-wall indium-plated lead bronze.
A forged steel crankshaft with 4 recessed and bolted on counterweights, having the big-end journals internally bored and being part of an end-to-end network of oil drillings which extended into the 4 counterweights. Dry sump by 2 scavenge pumps and 1 pressure pump. Connections for oil to the oil tank was with pressure pump intake being on the left side of the block and 2 scavenge pump outlets being on the right side of the block.
Driven from ball-bearinged spur-gear train at front of engine, the centrifugal water pump was mounted low at front. Bronze valve guides were used, the exhaust guides being finned and in direct contact with cooling water. Valve-seat inserts were shrunk-into the head. Head porting advice from Harry Weslake was sought. 1 14mm-spark plug per cylinder was used. Valves at an included angle of 66 degrees, with inlets at 32 degrees and exhaust at 34 degrees were used.
Domed cast aluminum full skirt pistons were made by Brico, they had 2 Dykes-type compression rings and 1 oil ring. High-nickel Nimonic 80 steel valves were used, separate magnesium tapped blocks with inserted iron guides for inverted flat topped chilled cast-iron tappets surrounding 2 valve coil springs were used. 2 Weber 50DCO3 twin throat carburetors were used.

Specifications:

Cylinders l4.
Bore 94mm.
Stroke 89.9mm.
Stroke/bore ratio 0.96:1.
Capacity 2496cc.
Compression ratio 11.9:1.
Con-rod length 129.5mm.
Rod/crank radius ratio 2.9:1.
Main bearing journal 63.5mm.
Rod journal 54mm.
Inlet valve 49.2mm.
Exhaust valve 42.8mm.
Valve lift 10.4mm.
Timing duration 290 degrees.
Valve overlap 90 degrees.
Inlet pressure 1Atm.
Engine weight 132kg.
Peak power 240BHP@6750RPM.
Piston speed corrected 20.4m/s.
Peak torque 287Nm@5000RPM.
Peak BMEP 210PSI.
96.2BHPper litre. 0.55kg per BHP.

[hollus]

Some links on the 1960 Coventry Climax FPF 2.5-litre four:

Excellent drawings in this PDF (page 10):
http://www.grandprixengines.co.uk/2nd_N ... Part_2.pdf



https://motor-car.net/climax-engines/it ... fpf-engine

https://bruce-mclaren.com/the-1960-2-5- ... er-climax/


https://primotipo.com/tag/cooper-spaceframe-chassis/

[Tommy Cookers]

“Apart from its use in production and racing cars by Lancia, a six in vee form was a virtually unknown engine type in the 1950’s, its adoption was surprising and exciting step for FERRARI, although of course it could be seen as half of one of his famous V12’S, no less surprising was the adoption of a vee angle of 65 degree between the cylinder banks, as opposed to the 60 angle that would give equal firing impulses with connecting rods sharing a common crankpin (big-end journal). IN FACT ENGINES OF BOTH CONFIGURATIONS WERE BUILD AND TESTED. The wider angle was chosen to allow more room for inlet ducting and carburetors”.

there seems to be no evidence that there was a 60 degree Dino 156

and the above quoted passage is standard-issue internet rubbish
one reason being that a 60 degree 3 throw V6 (unless a 2 stroke) cannot meet the equal firing interval requirement
if it could then 65 degree bank (Dino) would only need 3 slightly split +-2.5 degree crankpins not the 6 crankpins used

[hollus]

I suggest that we move on from the Dino. Both sides have exposed their case clearly, but this is not a trial where everything must be verified. IMHO.

[saviour stivala]

I suggest that we move on from the Dino. Both sides have exposed their case clearly, but this is not a trial where everything must be verified. IMHO.

Agree, in fact before you just came on I had decided to over and out on the subject because I calculated it was going to get us nowhere.

[bill shoe]

saviour stivala and hollus, this thread has been a wonderful review of older racing engines over the winter break. Every engine summary leaves a palpable impression of people having a go at it and doing the best they can with the resources available. Not sure how many of the 50 still remain to be done but thanks much for keeping this website interesting over the "dark" months.

[saviour stivala]

Bill. Thanks and glad you found the review interesting, yes the winter break was just the right time for such a review. Twenty more left to go.

[Jejking]

On a related note: last month I found out allf1.com is gone, anybody know what happened? It was a gem for engineaholics!