2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Jambier]

This rebirth of the team is such a pleasure

They should finish 4th this year, I'm hoping for continuous progress and be closer to the top teams next year

[mclaren111]

More sponsor money doesn’t automatically mean a higher budget. It could also result in less money from the shareholders.

Where do you pull this crap from.
More sponsor money will definitely mean a bigger budget. If anything, the shareholders will increase the budget.

It has been spoken openly as far as I remember, that the owners were supplementing the budget after the Honda split, from their own pockets and from sale of Assets, such as historic race cars. So it is entirely possible that any extra sponsorship may at first cover this amount. Now whether this was already resolved by the Latifi share purchase, or if the owners have already ceased payments, is another matter. But to say it is crap with no merit is not accurate at all, it's an entirely valid possibility.

I think most of Latifi's money went to paying Ron Dennis...

[Marc.W]

This rebirth of the team is such a pleasure

They should finish 4th this year, I'm hoping for continuous progress and be closer to the top teams next year

With only 9 races to go it should be in the bag, barring a freak win by Toro Rosso or Renault

[McG]

It has been spoken openly as far as I remember, that the owners were supplementing the budget after the Honda split, from their own pockets and from sale of Assets, such as historic race cars. So it is entirely possible that any extra sponsorship may at first cover this amount. Now whether this was already resolved by the Latifi share purchase, or if the owners have already ceased payments, is another matter. But to say it is crap with no merit is not accurate at all, it's an entirely valid possibility.

Right at this moment the owners are pumping money into a planned wind tunnel.

Feel free to speculate about the future beyond that, but form has shown the owners aren't afraid to spend so I'll disagree with anyone who makes a wild guess.

Yeah but isn't that another reason why it is possible that extra sponsorship money will not go to the racing budget? Not saying there will be, or speculating at all. Just pointing out that it isn't a foregone conclusion as you suggested.

Exactly the opposite. With better results there will be more money coming in to increase the budget.

It really was a silly notion from WrongDennis to begin with and doesn't deserve this amount of discussion.

[max_speed]

one thing that surprises me most is that how much respect fernando commands among all drivers despite winning just 2 titles. almost every driver on grid wants top 3 teams to pick him and put him in a car to fight against hamilton and verstappen. even ham and ves want him to come back but somehow teams do not want it or in backdrop almost all drivers fear him the most and stop team from hiring him. mclaren/alonso and honda was a celestial combination. just timing went wrong. how cool it would have been if mclaren honda would have been fighting with redbull and mercedes. hamilton/ves/alonso would have been like federer/nadal/djokovic in tennis. it is just sad. i hate politics in F1. team principals do not have balls to go for prost/senna configuration.

[mwillems]

Right at this moment the owners are pumping money into a planned wind tunnel.

Feel free to speculate about the future beyond that, but form has shown the owners aren't afraid to spend so I'll disagree with anyone who makes a wild guess.

Yeah but isn't that another reason why it is possible that extra sponsorship money will not go to the racing budget? Not saying there will be, or speculating at all. Just pointing out that it isn't a foregone conclusion as you suggested.

Exactly the opposite. With better results there will be more money coming in to increase the budget.

It really was a silly notion from WrongDennis to begin with and doesn't deserve this amount of discussion.

Not really, the wind tunnel may not be a part of the racing budget. if you want to get into accounts, the wind tunnel expenditure may not even be aligned with the F1 Team, the CapEx will sit wherever it will save tax and add fiduciary value.

So if the team need to pay for the tunnel via some of the sponsorship, that money might not make it to the teams budget in the first instance. Likewise, if the owners first want the team to stand on its own feet without and injection of money from the owners into the yearly budget, then any extra sponsorship may at first simply stop this injection and add nothing to the total of the budget.

So no, it isn't a silly notion, it is entirely possible that the budget may increase by nothing, or not too much more. Or of course it may increase a lot. Point is, it is possible and not unreasonable.

Anyway, I'll move on from this discussion.

[diffuser]

Remarkable pace in the car today. If the team can operate at this level on a front-limited track then I'd say they'd ace more suitable ones like Spa which they have been good at already. Bodes well for the second half.

If you’d offered me 5th and 9th before the weekend at possibly the track which is least suited to the car so far this season I’d have bitten your hand off! Great work from all involved, particularly Sainz who continues to prove that Red Bull were wrong to favour Gasly over him (despite the rumoured friction with Verstappen) with five top-6 finishes in his last seven races.

Spa & Monza might seem more suited to the car on paper but I expect the Ferrari & Mercedes engined cars (namely the Alfa and Racing Point) to be much closer to McLaren at those tracks due to their superior PU’s on what are, effectively, power circuits. Still, I agree with you that it has been a season surpassing all expectations thus far and the whole team deserves a huge amount of credit for turning it around in such a short space of time.

I still can't believe that in Q2 qualifying in hungry we had 3 tenths on Haas, Alfa and 5 tenths on Renault, STR. Hungry's a short track to boot. Wonder how those floor upgrades are gonna fare in SPA?

[mwillems]

Remarkable pace in the car today. If the team can operate at this level on a front-limited track then I'd say they'd ace more suitable ones like Spa which they have been good at already. Bodes well for the second half.

If you’d offered me 5th and 9th before the weekend at possibly the track which is least suited to the car so far this season I’d have bitten your hand off! Great work from all involved, particularly Sainz who continues to prove that Red Bull were wrong to favour Gasly over him (despite the rumoured friction with Verstappen) with five top-6 finishes in his last seven races.

Spa & Monza might seem more suited to the car on paper but I expect the Ferrari & Mercedes engined cars (namely the Alfa and Racing Point) to be much closer to McLaren at those tracks due to their superior PU’s on what are, effectively, power circuits. Still, I agree with you that it has been a season surpassing all expectations thus far and the whole team deserves a huge amount of credit for turning it around in such a short space of time.

I still can't believe that in Q2 qualifying in hungry we had 3 tenths on Haas, Alfa and 5 tenths on Renault, STR. Hungry's a short track to boot. Wonder how those floor upgrades are gonna fare in SPA?

It seems the POU did go on this weekend too, which would have helped in the slow corners.
I'd love to know how much speed this added to the car.

[SmallSoldier]

Where do you pull this crap from.
More sponsor money will definitely mean a bigger budget. If anything, the shareholders will increase the budget.

It has been spoken openly as far as I remember, that the owners were supplementing the budget after the Honda split, from their own pockets and from sale of Assets, such as historic race cars. So it is entirely possible that any extra sponsorship may at first cover this amount. Now whether this was already resolved by the Latifi share purchase, or if the owners have already ceased payments, is another matter. But to say it is crap with no merit is not accurate at all, it's an entirely valid possibility.

Right at this moment the owners are pumping money into a planned wind tunnel.

Feel free to speculate about the future beyond that, but form has shown the owners aren't afraid to spend so I'll disagree with anyone who makes a wild guess.

There is a difference between expenses and Capex (capital investments)... I agree with the rest telling you that the team has an approved budget and if they get more sponsors, that will simply reduce the amount that the investors pour into the team... The budget will remain the same (unless the sponsors provide more income than what is budgeted, which is unlikely).

Nevertheless the investors/board is willing to invest (not spend) in the wind tunnel, this is an asset that increases the value of the company and that eventually they can sell if needed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SmallSoldier]

Remarkable pace in the car today. If the team can operate at this level on a front-limited track then I'd say they'd ace more suitable ones like Spa which they have been good at already. Bodes well for the second half.

If you’d offered me 5th and 9th before the weekend at possibly the track which is least suited to the car so far this season I’d have bitten your hand off! Great work from all involved, particularly Sainz who continues to prove that Red Bull were wrong to favour Gasly over him (despite the rumoured friction with Verstappen) with five top-6 finishes in his last seven races.

Spa & Monza might seem more suited to the car on paper but I expect the Ferrari & Mercedes engined cars (namely the Alfa and Racing Point) to be much closer to McLaren at those tracks due to their superior PU’s on what are, effectively, power circuits. Still, I agree with you that it has been a season surpassing all expectations thus far and the whole team deserves a huge amount of credit for turning it around in such a short space of time.

I would be more concerned of even Renault... We all expected to do good at Montreal and it was Renault who shined in the “Power Track”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[M840TR]

Remarkable pace in the car today. If the team can operate at this level on a front-limited track then I'd say they'd ace more suitable ones like Spa which they have been good at already. Bodes well for the second half.

If you’d offered me 5th and 9th before the weekend at possibly the track which is least suited to the car so far this season I’d have bitten your hand off! Great work from all involved, particularly Sainz who continues to prove that Red Bull were wrong to favour Gasly over him (despite the rumoured friction with Verstappen) with five top-6 finishes in his last seven races.

Spa & Monza might seem more suited to the car on paper but I expect the Ferrari & Mercedes engined cars (namely the Alfa and Racing Point) to be much closer to McLaren at those tracks due to their superior PU’s on what are, effectively, power circuits. Still, I agree with you that it has been a season surpassing all expectations thus far and the whole team deserves a huge amount of credit for turning it around in such a short space of time.

I would be more concerned of even Renault... We all expected to do good at Montreal and it was Renault who shined in the “Power Track”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I’d still bet on Mclaren being ahead though. They have a really consistent car which is the exact opposite situation to Renault. In Canada where they hadn’t even understood the Barcelona spec car yet they would’ve been merely 2-3 tenths behind if not for all the issues. At the next race in France they dominated rest of the mid-fielders and that was with all the front end issues that’ve now seemingly been fixed.

[Marc.W]

McLaren have also been consistently up with Ferrari in terms of top speed

[McG]

Yeah but isn't that another reason why it is possible that extra sponsorship money will not go to the racing budget? Not saying there will be, or speculating at all. Just pointing out that it isn't a foregone conclusion as you suggested.

Exactly the opposite. With better results there will be more money coming in to increase the budget.

It really was a silly notion from WrongDennis to begin with and doesn't deserve this amount of discussion.

Not really, the wind tunnel may not be a part of the racing budget. if you want to get into accounts, the wind tunnel expenditure may not even be aligned with the F1 Team, the CapEx will sit wherever it will save tax and add fiduciary value.

So if the team need to pay for the tunnel via some of the sponsorship, that money might not make it to the teams budget in the first instance. Likewise, if the owners first want the team to stand on its own feet without and injection of money from the owners into the yearly budget, then any extra sponsorship may at first simply stop this injection and add nothing to the total of the budget.

So no, it isn't a silly notion, it is entirely possible that the budget may increase by nothing, or not too much more. Or of course it may increase a lot. Point is, it is possible and not unreasonable.

Anyway, I'll move on from this discussion.

That's a hell of a lot of "if". And that's part of my point.

I welcome your digression on this.

[mwillems]

Yes, the "if" is there because your initial response makes the assumption that extra sponsorship = bigger budget, and refers to another opinions as "crap".
That's the point. We don't know, and it is entirely possible that more sponsorship != bigger budget. Nobody but you said that the budget would go distinctly one way or another and nobody else is arguing it will be one or the other so those opinions aren't wrong, just opinions. The point is, I don't think you can assume that the budget will go one way or another. Maybe the budget will go bigger, but there is nothing to say it definitely will as the Mclaren group will have a very large capital expenditure soon and the owners may want some cash back, and will certainly want to stop giving their own money to the racing team. It's hard to ignore that these things might have significant impact on the budget.

[SmallSoldier]

If you’d offered me 5th and 9th before the weekend at possibly the track which is least suited to the car so far this season I’d have bitten your hand off! Great work from all involved, particularly Sainz who continues to prove that Red Bull were wrong to favour Gasly over him (despite the rumoured friction with Verstappen) with five top-6 finishes in his last seven races.

Spa & Monza might seem more suited to the car on paper but I expect the Ferrari & Mercedes engined cars (namely the Alfa and Racing Point) to be much closer to McLaren at those tracks due to their superior PU’s on what are, effectively, power circuits. Still, I agree with you that it has been a season surpassing all expectations thus far and the whole team deserves a huge amount of credit for turning it around in such a short space of time.

I would be more concerned of even Renault... We all expected to do good at Montreal and it was Renault who shined in the “Power Track”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I’d still bet on Mclaren being ahead though. They have a really consistent car which is the exact opposite situation to Renault. In Canada where they hadn’t even understood the Barcelona spec car yet they would’ve been merely 2-3 tenths behind if not for all the issues. At the next race in France they dominated rest of the mid-fielders and that was with all the front end issues that’ve now seemingly been fixed.

I believe data shows that we should expect that... The problem is that during the season there have been so many performance changes based on track layout and track temperature that we have seeing a lot of surprises.

The team was behind Renault in Silverstone (in terms of performance)... Germany wasn’t looking great for the team either and we really won’t be able to know how the performance was compared to others due to the weather.

If Mclaren has really solved their slow speed issues, they definitely will be in contention for that 4th best car on the grid... The engine seems to be working well and in a place like Spa, if they can exploit their high speed advantage they could close the gap a bit to the top 3... I just don’t think they have really cleared the midfield yet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk