2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[JordanMugen]

But it doesn't stop Cyril from bragging.

Of course Cyril should brag, Renault power units are superb. The incremental improvements are delivering wonderful steps and plenty of data.

Murmuring to the contrary from Team Principal Seidl and McLaren fans here are most concerning, when they should really be admiring and praising the Viry power units.

Relatively speaking, it's been the worst.

McLaren studies the possibility of using Mercedes engines from 2021

It's disappointing for us to have two DNFs, with one driver not even being able to make the race start.
It is important that we have a transparent and open relationship there, and that we analyse the issues and try to solve them together."

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclar ... a/4527921/

IMO such comments by Seidl are unwise, given how superbly the Renault power units have performed.

It's just the same old song with Renault

What's wrong that!? Renault's policy of careful incremental improvements and not manufacturing excessive power unit stock (why wastefully manufacture spare items, when items can be refurbished and returned to service) has served them well during hybrid power unit era. It would be unwise to change tack. It's the Renault way of doing things, and has served them well.

The reliability problems are unacceptable,

How so? It is part of motor racing and part of the development process. It's typically been the Renault way and is what McLaren expected after all from Renault units.

[Capharol]

It's just the same old song with Renault

What's wrong that!? Renault's policy of careful incremental improvements and not manufacturing excessive power unit stock (why wastefully manufacture spare items, when items can be refurbished and returned to service) has served them well during hybrid power unit era. It would be unwise to change tack. It's the Renault way of doing things, and has served them well.

very good job .....
how many blown up engines has renault had this year? and i only ask of this year, i am not even mentioning since 2014 and i guess they should start rethink the way of "doing things that served them well"

[JordanMugen]

how many blown up egnine has renault had this year?

At least six in races if I recall correctly. Not sure about Free Practise or testing. Not too bad at all -- typical with Renault precedent.

Is it not exactly the high quality but economically prudent Renault power unit supply McLaren signed up for, nothing more, nothing less? Renault are not a wasteful manufacturer -- too many revisions, too many new parts, too much testing -- that would be wasteful. Instead, they are sensible and economically prudent in F1, which is very wise.

[M840TR]

how many blown up egnine has renault had this year?

At least six in races if I recall correctly. Not sure about Free Practise or testing. Not too bad at all -- typical with Renault precedent.

Mate, they had 3 engines explode in the very first two races. Pretty dismal if you ask me.

[JordanMugen]

Mate, they had 3 engines explode in the very first two races. Pretty dismal if you ask me.

I counted those. Sainz in Australia, and Ricciardo and Hulkenberg in Bahrain IIRC.

they should start rethink the way of "doing things that served them well"

Surely you don't think McLaren expected anything different when they signed up for Renault power unit supply?

It's the Renault way, and the Renault units finish more races than they do not while competing well.. Not bad at all.

[Capharol]

Mate, they had 3 engines explode in the very first two races. Pretty dismal if you ask me.

I counted those. Sainz in Australia, and Ricciardo and Hulkenberg in Bahrain IIRC.

they should start rethink the way of "doing things that served them well"

Surely you don't think McLaren expected anything different when they signed up for Renault power unit supply?

It's the Renault way, and the Renault units finish more races than they do not while competing well.. Not bad at all.

ok when they finish 11 races of the 21, of course they finish more races as they do not...
this weekend it was the 1st time a Mercedes engine blew up (twice) it was the 1st time a Ferrari engine blew up (Alfa Romeo), Honda 0 engines blew up, Renault, as you said, at least 6 ... but hey Renault doing it they're way and it served them well (not really, because the lost a big customer)... but if you wanna believe that, that's fine by me, the figures speaks another language

[Jolle]

I might be wrong, but I don't think any Renault powered car finished a seasons since 2014 without penalties. At Mercedes penalties are rare, over all seasons I think only Hamilton gathered a few in 2016 and Ferrari has it under control for the past few seasons.

[mwillems]

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that Renault are the right team to propel us to the championship, far from it. And I doubt anyone will dispute that they have the worst reliability this year.

But first of all, what can happen, and what can that change? If we put the Merc in this years car, will we be 3rd in the championship, or close? No, because the speed isn't our issue.

It would cost money, it would mean a redesign at the back of the car, a new relationship, moving into the shadow and the "stable" of the greatest competitor. At least now we can claim to be the best of the Renaults. I do not see a benefit from moving engine anytime before 2021. For sure we will get points, but what will those points get us? Just a lot of hassle I think.

[PhillipM]

There's no point changing the Renault motor until the entire car is up there with the pace of the Red Bull - the Renault has enough performance for that.

[SmallSoldier]

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that Renault are the right team to propel us to the championship, far from it. And I doubt anyone will dispute that they have the worst reliability this year.

But first of all, what can happen, and what can that change? If we put the Merc in this years car, will we be 3rd in the championship, or close? No, because the speed isn't our issue.

It would cost money, it would mean a redesign at the back of the car, a new relationship, moving into the shadow and the "stable" of the greatest competitor. At least now we can claim to be the best of the Renaults. I do not see a benefit from moving engine anytime before 2021. For sure we will get points, but what will those points get us? Just a lot of hassle I think.

I agree with you... The DNF’s are obviously disappointing and watching Norris stop on the last lap was gut wrenching.

But, if it has to happen... I’m glad it’s happening in a season where the team isn’t fighting for third or better in the championship and at a point in the season when we have still a gap to 5th in the constructors championship.

Seidl is just asking for an understanding of the failures, which seems not related to the ICE, but either the MGU-K or ERS.

Renault has made an important step in Power this season, hopefully the gremlins will be dealt with from here to year end and if the team builds an improved race car for next year, we won’t be suffering from the same issues in 2020 and try to fight with the top 3.

The MCL34 isn’t the best of the midfield as qualifying in Spa showed, but it is a very consistent race car and seems to be very decent on race pace.

The team also seems to keep their focus on improving the car and with updates showing at almost every race, with a program that allows them to analyze them individually (they don’t bring several updates per race, but an small ones to determine their actual effect).

In regards to the season, it is still a positive one... I only hope that they can clearly become the 4th fastest car before the end of the year, since that would be a good starting point towards 2020.


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[Capharol]

I really don't understand this whole thing with Renault.

Is Renault/Cyril/or anyone responsible such a good/sweet talker, or is everybody just blind (or maybe I am)

Since the hybrid era started Renault struggeld to get the engine running properly, at least 6 engine failures this year, whereas others have only 2, 1, or none
they promise the same every year, more power, better reliabllity..... none of it showing.
they say they are better then _______[to be filled out by yourself], which apperantly they are not, because they can't even beat a customer team (twice), and these customers teams losing loads of points due to the unreliabillity of that engine (although they're ppl who say that they are doing well).

and i don't wanna start another discussion about Honda v Renault, but McLaren could have gotten the same with Honda as RB has now, if this relationship wasn't so broken at the end as it was.
and even if it is for 4th place in the WCC, its still 4th and only 31 points ahead of the #5 in that ranking .... what was it before Spa? (40 or so) and still we have 8 races to go... if McLaren has two more DNF's due to engine failures those points can be gone faster as you think......

and then we will see how those responsible at McLaren will react ......

[SmallSoldier]

I will never understand why people mix the Renault “Team” performance with engine performance... Renault isn’t having a great season and their car isn’t performing, but that’s unrelated to the engine... So, the fact that they are beaten “once again” by a customer team has no bearing in the engine performance and it’s an unnecessary comment in this discussion.

In regards to the engine, the facts seem to show that from a power perspective they are “ok” (I personally don’t care to rank the engines, since they all seem to be pretty similar to each other in terms of power and they have to an extent converged already in that regard).

Renault is still suffering from reliability issues, something that after this many years one would hope that it would have been solved... But, at the same time, every development they bring in has the potential to create new issues... The fact that a team with what was considered the most reliable engine since the Hybrid era (Mercedes) had 2 failures this week, indicates that whenever a new spec is introduced, the potential for failure is there.


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[Capharol]

I will never understand why people mix the Renault “Team” performance with engine performance... Renault isn’t having a great season and their car isn’t performing, but that’s unrelated to the engine... So, the fact that they are beaten “once again” by a customer team has no bearing in the engine performance and it’s an unnecessary comment in this discussion.

oh since when does the renault works team doesn't drive with another engine then renault?

[mwillems]

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that Renault are the right team to propel us to the championship, far from it. And I doubt anyone will dispute that they have the worst reliability this year.

But first of all, what can happen, and what can that change? If we put the Merc in this years car, will we be 3rd in the championship, or close? No, because the speed isn't our issue.

It would cost money, it would mean a redesign at the back of the car, a new relationship, moving into the shadow and the "stable" of the greatest competitor. At least now we can claim to be the best of the Renaults. I do not see a benefit from moving engine anytime before 2021. For sure we will get points, but what will those points get us? Just a lot of hassle I think.

I agree with you... The DNF’s are obviously disappointing and watching Norris stop on the last lap was gut wrenching.

But, if it has to happen... I’m glad it’s happening in a season where the team isn’t fighting for third or better in the championship and at a point in the season when we have still a gap to 5th in the constructors championship.

Seidl is just asking for an understanding of the failures, which seems not related to the ICE, but either the MGU-K or ERS.

Renault has made an important step in Power this season, hopefully the gremlins will be dealt with from here to year end and if the team builds an improved race car for next year, we won’t be suffering from the same issues in 2020 and try to fight with the top 3.

The MCL34 isn’t the best of the midfield as qualifying in Spa showed, but it is a very consistent race car and seems to be very decent on race pace.

The team also seems to keep their focus on improving the car and with updates showing at almost every race, with a program that allows them to analyze them individually (they don’t bring several updates per race, but an small ones to determine their actual effect).

In regards to the season, it is still a positive one... I only hope that they can clearly become the 4th fastest car before the end of the year, since that would be a good starting point towards 2020.


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It was gut wrenching. But if I could choose between finishing 12th because performance never come back to us on the Sunday, or the outcome that did play out.... then I'll take Sunday's events, because I'm happy we haven't lost our speed and still optimistic for the remaining races, even if the points didnt go our way.

[rogazilla]

I think McLaren is right to extend out to Renault and ask for transparency and it will be in both of their benefit. May be McLaren could provide some insight and help Renault to get on top of their reliability issue. At this point, the engine switch talk has to stop. McLaren finally have a good race car and they should continue to develop it, this is something they can control. If they are able to build a car that's on par with RBR and decide to switch engine again, that's going to be a step backward if they are going to Merc or Honda because the lay out is different, cooling requirement is different and it will require changes to the car that they will be on the back foot again. Going to Ferrari may be less of an issue due layout but I also think it requires a lot of work to get the car to fit.

The only item that's out of McL's control is the Renault's PU development. I say try to develop the car the best they can and either hope for Renault get on top of PU reliability or extend assistance to help Renault get on top of it.