Record losses in Australia

[WhiteBlue]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=657566

40 mil $ is serious money. this is far more than the single digit loss figures of European GPs. I'm not up to date on the exchange rate of the AUS$ vs the € but the loss must be a serious double digit figure in €. I wonder how this can be justified to the tax payer. I'm sure we could never get it through in Germany. Hockenheim failed by 4 or 5 mil €. they may never hold a GP again. how much money must an everage race goer spend that the tax payer breaks even? I have no idea what the sales tax is but it will surely be less than the 19% we pay in Germany.

[Ray]

I'd like to hear Ciro's take on this considering he thought I was exaggerating the fact that the global economy is very close to collapse, and that the little guy (taxpayer) is being screwed by the big banks around the world. This is the beginning of the end for the middle classes of the world. It's enraging that the Aussie taxpayers take the hit, yet they HAVE TO BUY TICKETS TO THE VERY SAME RACE THEY PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!! Socialize the losses, privatize the profits. Kill the middle classes ability to provide for itself through inflation by the Federal Reserve and the International Monetary Fund, and make sure that socializing everything by the government. This is socialism folks, and the bringers of this should be severely punished. And it's never worked.

[ben_watkins]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=657566

40 mil $ is serious money. this is far more than the single digit loss figures of European GPs. I'm not up to date on the exchange rate of the AUS$ vs the € but the loss must be a serious double digit figure in €.

According to xe.com currency converter $40,000,000AUD is €20,581,492.52EUR

Ouch!

[mike]

well according to state of Victoria, it's very much worth it to lose that amount of money a year, since it provide advertisement to the world like nothing else, i live in melbourne for a few years now and i have to say, Victoria is a state that is intended to beat Sydney in its popularity over the world and tourism is a important business as the state considers. Not only that we are also building a huge rotating wheel that serves as a land mark to the world , apparently when people think about australia they either think of the country next to germany or the country with the bridge and the opera house
i personally think, that we waste more money on other stuff, and losing 40mil to hold the first race of the season is a good investment, by the way this is the same stupid government who lost 1bil aud to make a transport ticketing system that doesnt work and its due 2 years ago.

[WhiteBlue]

I cannot imagine that 20 mil € stack up in a conventional calculation where you simply look at gov revenue from the taxes generated by the GP. if it is tourism sponsering they do I have difficulty to put a figure to the value of that. do they get the tax payer a return by spending it that way?

anyway it has to be a record sum and is probably up there with what places like Abu Dhabi and Bahrain spend. And they do not have oil in australia. the downside of all that deficit spending is the unfair competition it creates for European races which will never get that kind of subsidies. it is inviting greedy Ecclestone to continue driving his prices up so that European race fans will not find any affordable races any more. hockenheim had a red bill of 4 mil € and is now dead. bad news indeed.

[ISLAMATRON]

I'd like to hear Ciro's take on this considering he thought I was exaggerating the fact that the global economy is very close to collapse, and that the little guy (taxpayer) is being screwed by the big banks around the world. This is the beginning of the end for the middle classes of the world. It's enraging that the Aussie taxpayers take the hit, yet they HAVE TO BUY TICKETS TO THE VERY SAME RACE THEY PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!! Socialize the losses, privatize the profits. Kill the middle classes ability to provide for itself through inflation by the Federal Reserve and the International Monetary Fund, and make sure that socializing everything by the government. This is socialism folks, and the bringers of this should be severely punished. And it's never worked.

You got it all wrong, it is not socialism, it is the utmost in capitolism. And that is what makes it bad. Capitolism has been privatising the profits since before it was called capitolism.

[Ciro Pabón]

I'd like to hear Ciro's take on this considering he thought I was exaggerating the fact that the global economy is very close to collapse, and that the little guy (taxpayer) is being screwed by the big banks around the world.

I said two years ago the following: "Most races lose money (look at Albert Park catastrophe this year) and the money they lose, that can cripple an organizer forever, is what a team spends on aerodinamic design in a week."

I also had a series of PM with guys supporting Canada GP, explaining the financial circumstances of Ozz. According to the Victoria State auditor, they make money in the end, when you figure the increase in taxes, but the calculations seems pretty irresponsible to me.

The little guy is always screwed by banks. It's called capitalism.

[donskar]

I expect to see some future posts signed by Karl Marx and Josef Stalin. . . . Me for Engels.

There are endless ways of looking at this, but here's one:
The promoter loses LOTS of money because Bernie has a monopoly, can charge whatever he can get ("whatever the market will bear" Capitalism - NOT Socialism). Bernie also controls rights to many of the secondary money stream related to F1 (TV and marketing rights, et al).

SOME of the race-goers (the Aussies) help support the race directly through taxes, yes. BUT they benefit short-term from the funds the government gets from the race - taxes collected by hotels, restaurants, the airport, stores, etc, ad nauseum.

Longer-term, all Australians should gain from the benefits linked to the visibility and higher stature generated by the race. More tourism, more conventions, even foreign firms moving to or opening branches in Australia. That last bit takes a bit of basic optimism as well as the ability to see lnog-term/big picture.

[Ray]

You got it all wrong, it is not socialism, it is the utmost in capitalism. And that is what makes it bad. Capitalism has been privatizing the profits since before it was called capitalism.

I said two years ago the following: "Most races lose money (look at Albert Park catastrophe this year) and the money they lose, that can cripple an organizer forever, is what a team spends on aerodynamic design in a week."

I also had a series of PM with guys supporting Canada GP, explaining the financial circumstances of Oz. According to the Victoria State auditor, they make money in the end, when you figure the increase in taxes, but the calculations seems pretty irresponsible to me.

The little guy is always screwed by banks. It's called capitalism.

I fail to see how this is not socialism. Spreading the cost out to the taxpayer, while the local businesses and sponsors of the event get coverage to seel to the very people who paid for the even to happen. We ourselves finance Presidential campaigns, it's required by Federal Law that we give the candidates I think something like $29 million to finance their campaign. To me that's unacceptable. Just because of the fact that they tax the people to raise the money to hold the event, or to pay for it at the end and then require they buy a ticket to attend. They've already paid! The sickening part is when the event fails, or loses a significant amount of money, they tax the people more to cover it or that countries government creates the money to pay for it. Which is just as bad if not worse.

And you both obviously don't understand how banks actually work. Capitalism has nothing to do with bankers making massive amounts of money, neither does socialism either I guess. Capitalism in the world has been dead for years. Government intervention has killed it off, and somehow has convinced the majority of the people that it is the cause of today problems, which isn't true.

[ISLAMATRON]

I fail to see how this is not socialism. Spreading the cost out to the taxpayer, while the local businesses and sponsors of the event get coverage to seel to the very people who paid for the even to happen. We ourselves finance Presidential campaigns, it's required by Federal Law that we give the candidates I think something like $29 million to finance their campaign. To me that's unacceptable. Just because of the fact that they tax the people to raise the money to hold the event, or to pay for it at the end and then require they buy a ticket to attend. They've already paid! The sickening part is when the event fails, or loses a significant amount of money, they tax the people more to cover it or that countries government creates the money to pay for it. Which is just as bad if not worse.

Socialism does not spread the costs, it spreads the benefits, but you have been taught to believe otherwise. What is done with the race is no different than the oil companies in America, as a citizen you own the oil that comes from underneath the ground, yet you still pay for it at the pump, plus taxes on it. Capitalism, makes it that the land the oil companies drill on is sold to them very cheaply by their government pawns, then they pay minimal royalties & taxes to the government. No different that the austrailia race, just a different commodity. Anyways, only rich people go to F1 races anyway, so they can afford it, and they are the same people who benefit from the race being in their country anyway.

And you both obviously don't understand how banks actually work. Capitalism has nothing to do with bankers making massive amounts of money, neither does socialism either I guess. Capitalism in the world has been dead for years. Government intervention has killed it off, and somehow has convinced the majority of the people that it is the cause of today problems, which isn't true.

You obviously dont understand that banks dont work. Trading false wealth such as interest, and futures(things that dont actually exist) for tangible wealth(foodstuffs, houses, cars, energy, etc) will never be feasible or sustainable in the long term. And the only people who suffer from that are the poor. Capitalism has everything to do with very few people making massive amounts of money off the backs of the poorer people. Capitalism is not dead, but dies a little more every time there is a "market correction" which in actuality is the true effect of inflation becuz they are trading things that dont exist for things that do. The governments are merely in self preservation mode.

[Ray]

Socialism does not spread the costs, it spreads the benefits, but you have been taught to believe otherwise. What is done with the race is no different than the oil companies in America, as a citizen you own the oil that comes from underneath the ground, yet you still pay for it at the pump, plus taxes on it.

Okay, if Socialism spreads the benefits rather than the costs, where do the funds come from? The government? Nope. It comes from the citizen in the form of, gasp!, taxes. Social Security tax. Medicare tax. Social Security is a failure, I'm paying for it but I'm never going to see the 'benefits' of it. My grandfather didn't see the 'benefits' they told him he was going to recieve.

I do not own the oil underneath the ground. Where did you come up with that idea? Whoever purchases the land and spends their money to drill for it owns it. Whoever pays for the land covered in timber owns it and can log it for their benefit. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Capitalism, makes it that the land the oil companies drill on is sold to them very cheaply by their government pawns, then they pay minimal royalties & taxes to the government.

No, government causes this. You said it yourself. The government writes laws that allows them to buy the land cheaper than the free market (capitalism) would sell it to them. How much more proof do you need than that? Capitalism isn't the problem, it's the government altering the price of the land compared to it's market value that causes it. It's not that hard to see.

You obviously dont understand that banks dont work.

I do in fact know how banks work. The way the governments and the people who line the politicians pockets have engineered a system that works to devastating effect. The current system we have goes all the way back to the 16th century. You need to read The Creature from Jekyll Island. If you do ever read take the opportunity to read it it will blow you away.

Capitalism has everything to do with very few people making massive amounts of money off the backs of the poorer people. Capitalism is not dead, but dies a little more every time there is a "market correction" which in actuality is the true effect of inflation because they are trading things that don't exist for things that do. The governments are merely in self preservation mode.

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation. With government creating laws that benefit the coporations we have the problems of today. They have allowed banks to create money, passed laws that give them the right to do so, yet the average citizen will go to jail for a long time if they do the same exact thing. Capitalism in it's very basic and true for is businesses competing, without government regulation or interference, for people to come buy their products. If they make good products they succeed, if not they fail. What we have here is not capitalism. Success and failure are part of capitalism, by not allowing, or funding these companies to prevent them from failing is NOT capitalism.

You're right about the governments being in self preservation mode to a point. When the collapse of the economies happen, the people who are being taxed and robbed by the banks and governments are the ones that will scrape the barrel. This is caused by inflation, government handouts to corporations, laws that stifle competition, and general meddling with the economy. A government intervening in anything is almost always a bad idea when it come to the markets. Every single action they've taken in this country has made it worse, not better. And we are the ones financing it through inflation caused by the Federal Reserve banks.

I surely hope that the Australia race stay on the calendar, I really like the country. I'd give anything to go back and see it again. The people are the most friendly I've ever met anywhere in the world. It's a shame that Bernie is charging so much for a race, but then again they don't have to pay it. I could see it working if they turned a small profit, but losing 40 million is way too steep.

[mr moda]

WB. Australia does have oil. It also has offshore gas as well.

[ISLAMATRON]

RAy, congratulations, you have been very thoroughly brainwashed, enjoy the benefits.

[donskar]

Funny, 90,000 attended the IndyCar race at Surfer's Paradise and the cost was much smaller (from Motor Sports news):

If the money issues can be sorted out from a Queensland support budget of $11 million (Australian) annually and a five-year contract with sponsor Nikon, the short-term solution is to have another non-points race next year in October, a time the Aussies prefer because it falls after the Rugby and Aussie Football season championships.

Bernie and Max CLAIM their goal is affordable, fast open-wheelers, big crowds, reasonable cost through limited technology, international drivers and international venues. . . . It's already here. It's called IndyCar.

[Ray]

RAy, congratulations, you have been very thoroughly brainwashed, enjoy the benefits.

Care to elaborate or you just going to insult me instead of factually proving me wrong?