2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[HPD]

After spending just more than half the season at Toro rosso albon is only a couple of half decent results from overtaking gasley in the drivers standings
Not bad to to say he has had to start from the back of the grid a few times since his switch

not sure if being serious or trolling.

Albon's done more in Sochi than Gasly made in his entire F1 career.

not sure if being incorrect or flippant. gasly has finished 4th so not quite lol

Albon is better suited to RB15. This does not mean that Gasly is bad.
But it doesn't matter if Gasly is good or better than Albon, if he can't drive the RB15 we are arguing in vain.

Albon is doing a good job with the RB15. But I still don't see anything "spectacular" in Albon.

[Capharol]

7 PUs for STR.

Mercedes and Ferrari used 6 and now what?

Apparently exceeding PU element limits due to on track failures/reliability issues is not an issue.

But if you use the same amount because of a combination of accidents and a faster development rate with new engine specs and yet zero track failures, that is somehow far worse.

I almost hope he'ses trolling at this point

[diffuser]

At least now I know we can lump you in with McMika98 for having no clue and a penchant to troll

Me too!

For someone that is so Honda bias that he excuses the obvious.

Yes you're right. Honda have been the most unreliable and slowest developing PU manufacturer of 2019, you are absolutely right. I must be mistaken about the zero failure record and increased dev rate. I sincerely apologise for ignoring all the facts...

I'll just continue to quote the PU usage chart in isolation while ignoring reality in the vain attempt I can skew the facts in which this forum is for.

Good luck my friend, ignorance is bliss.

That's not what I said. I just pointed out that they've had thier issues. They haven't broken down in races but that is disguised by the number of PU they've replaced. It makes it easier to get the end of a race if you PUs always have less that 4 GPs on them.


I also don't want to beat up on Honda cause I think thier doing GREAT work. Often, in this forum, the conversation tends to be one sided and overlook the facts.

[HPD]

Me too!

For someone that is so Honda bias that he excuses the obvious.

Yes you're right. Honda have been the most unreliable and slowest developing PU manufacturer of 2019, you are absolutely right. I must be mistaken about the zero failure record and increased dev rate. I sincerely apologise for ignoring all the facts...

I'll just continue to quote the PU usage chart in isolation while ignoring reality in the vain attempt I can skew the facts in which this forum is for.

Good luck my friend, ignorance is bliss.

That's not what I said. I just pointed out that they've had thier issues. They haven't broken down in races but that is disguised by the number of PU they've replaced. It makes it easier to get the end of a race if you PUs always have less that 4 GPs on them.


I also don't want to beat up on Honda cause I think thier doing GREAT work. Often, in this forum, the conversation tends to be one sided and overlook the facts.

It depends on how you understand it.
RB and Honda plan in early 2019 was to use 5 PU for the season.
Therefore, if you stay within the 2019 plan, you cannot call it "failure."

I don't understand why people keep insisting on using 1 engine for 7 GP when that was never the plan.
I hope I have clarified your doubts because they use more than 3 PU.
And YES, Honda also had reliability issues, like everyone else. But even so, they managed to maintain the 5 PU target for RB

[gokarter]

I still think Honda needs to work on reliability but they have improved a lot . One thing iam impressed by Honda is they can detect if something is wrong before it goes bang in the race losing vital points. Overall reliability is solid for Redbull team and TR doing the testing.

[SF Engineer]

not sure if being serious or trolling.

Albon's done more in Sochi than Gasly made in his entire F1 career.

not sure if being incorrect or flippant. gasly has finished 4th so not quite lol

Albon is better suited to RB15. This does not mean that Gasly is bad.
But it doesn't matter if Gasly is good or better than Albon, if he can't drive the RB15 we are arguing in vain.

Albon is doing a good job with the RB15. But I still don't see anything "spectacular" in Albon.

I agree with you, mostly.

I think objectively, that saying Albon has not been spectacular is correct. He has been good bordering very good, and I think that is probably going to be enough to secure a seat in 2020 (considering his age and the stage of his career).

Below is purely my opinion with no real data, so take it with a grain of salt...

The RB15 appears to be quite a pointy car. Considering the sizes of various areas of the current cars (front wing, rear wing and diffuser), the car is going to be rear DF limited without adding significant rear wing angle (and therefore taking a significant hit in terms of efficiency). There are essentially 3 ways to reply to this problem: Add the RW anyway and live with the added drag (Mercedes), reduce the contribution from the FW and live with the overall loss of DF (loosely speaking the Ferrari and Alfa way of thinking), or crank the front to 11, adjust the rear for the circuit, and pray to whatever God(s) you believe in that at least one of the slabs of meat you sit in between the axles of your two cars is able to consistently cope with the entry oversteer (Red Bull).

The more talented the driver the more they will be able to cope with the OS at entry, and maximize the benefits of having more front downforce in the mid-exit phases. Clearly Max can take advantage of this and the search is on for someone else who can to pilot the second car. I think it is a tricky thing to do, so most drivers (even very talented ones) will have trouble performing immediately, as Gasly and Albon have. For me, the difference between the two has been in the improvements of each through the respective race weekends. Generally, Gasly seemed to get what he could put of the car immediately and fail to improve as the weekend went on. He did show improvement over the 1/2 season he spent in the car, but in the time scale of F1, it came off as underwhelming. Albon seems to improve throughout the race weekend, as he adapts to driving the car at each specific circuit. I think his is a pattern more likely to produce results on his second visit to a track in a similarly designed car, and hence I think he is the best option of those available for next year.

On a side note I think the Mercedes approach of adding rear downforce is generally the best as it reduces the requirement of grip from tires necessary to result in the same mu with the road surface and therefore is better for tire life. It also reduces the teams dependency on driver ability (especially helpful for the manufacturer's championship).

[rogazilla]

I think it is very clear that TR car fits Gasly better and he was not on term with RB car. Be it confidence, driving style or anything else.

Albon on the other hand seem to be able to adapt his driving style to make the car work and that should serve him well. As for crashing the car, he was doing that in TR before being promoted and I am not sure why anyone is surprised. I think it is good that he's pushing it while we hope he can do that without damaging the car but it seems he finds the limit and does well in the race. He will learn and improve in this regard.

The main difference between Albon and Gasly for me is that Albon is a better passer. The few races we have seen from Albon, he has not been starting from the front and evey race he has made some passes that I don't think we would see Gasly to try.

[Sieper]

Very good posts SF Engineer and Rogazilla!

What we (also) stil need to see (If,once Albon can start from the front, no engine penalties and no crash) is his defensive skills, but I think they will be very good as well as he (and Kvyat) showed great restraint and fair close race defences many times). And I wan't to see his real race pace. Also a bit of an unknown till now due to starting at the back or the Ferrari traffic jam in Singapore.

[JordanMugen]

Motion blur sucks.

Motion blur is natural. Waving your hands in front of your face, looking at a spinning fan, or watching the wheels of a racing car passing by, your brain sees a blurred image.

It is common problem of 50 frame per second filming, that using the default shutter speed of 1/100 second tends to make things look as if "in slow motion" even though they are not.

The default shutter speed of 1/50 second for 25 frames per second for PAL video (or 1/48s and 24 frames for motion pictures), tends to give a natural looking level of motion blur.

Of course, with a digital video camera, it is possible to use both 50 frames per second and 1/50 second shutter speed, as there is no need to allocate time between frames for moving the physical film media through the camera.

You could film at 1/1000 second shutter speeds and get perfectly crisp pictures of the racing car's wheels and perfectly crisp frames of the scenery behind the car or bike, but this would be entirely unnatural looking.

[diffuser]

Yes you're right. Honda have been the most unreliable and slowest developing PU manufacturer of 2019, you are absolutely right. I must be mistaken about the zero failure record and increased dev rate. I sincerely apologise for ignoring all the facts...

I'll just continue to quote the PU usage chart in isolation while ignoring reality in the vain attempt I can skew the facts in which this forum is for.

Good luck my friend, ignorance is bliss.

That's not what I said. I just pointed out that they've had thier issues. They haven't broken down in races but that is disguised by the number of PU they've replaced. It makes it easier to get the end of a race if you PUs always have less that 4 GPs on them.


I also don't want to beat up on Honda cause I think thier doing GREAT work. Often, in this forum, the conversation tends to be one sided and overlook the facts.

It depends on how you understand it.
RB and Honda plan in early 2019 was to use 5 PU for the season.
Therefore, if you stay within the 2019 plan, you cannot call it "failure."

I don't understand why people keep insisting on using 1 engine for 7 GP when that was never the plan.
I hope I have clarified your doubts because they use more than 3 PU.
And YES, Honda also had reliability issues, like everyone else. But even so, they managed to maintain the 5 PU target for RB

https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... ymotor.png

I agree with you with regards to wether RBR are are satisfied with Honda's reliability.

[loner]

i assume RBR will be very strong in Japan based on the fact they introduced an ICE in Russia , i imagine they will put a life span of 4 races in this ICE in Suzuka since there will be only 4 races after it with 2 spec 4 ICE available,its doable.

[TNTHead]

On Dutch television Jos Verstappen commented on the development pace of Red Bull/Honda. He said something along the lines: at the end of this year the gap with the Ferrari en Mercedes should be closed, otherwise next year will be another year of struggling. You could see some growing impatience within the Verstappen team. I cannot disagree.

[Bill]

Redbull have never been really good after tech regulations change next year should be better

[Wouter]

On Dutch television Jos Verstappen commented on the development pace of Red Bull/Honda. He said something along the lines: at the end of this year the gap with the Ferrari en Mercedes should be closed, otherwise next year will be another year of struggling. You could see some growing impatience within the Verstappen team. I cannot disagree.

More about the interview :

Through a Skype conversation in the tv programme Peptalk on Ziggo Sport father Jos looks back on the performance of his son in Russia, and he looks ahead to the remaining races of the season.

It should not take too long before he is going to deliver what we are all hoping for and he can challenge for the world title. “No, that is what we think too”, says the father of Aston Martin Red Bull Racing driver who today celebrated his twenty-second birthday: “We should have been closer, but that is more difficult than we thought. It is very frustrating. In the last races before the summer break it went really well, but after the summer break we did not progress while the other teams did. Max cannot change that, we depend on the team, the car is a bit behind, the engine is a bit behind, more work has to be done on this combination if we want to challenge for the world title next year.”

Verstappen senior continues: “We are very concerned if there will be any improvement in the short term, we will talk to the team to see what can be done. We depend on the equipment we get and at the moment it is not good enough.”

Asked if it is discouraging now and then, Jos answers: “Seeing Max’ performance, put him in a good car and he will challenge for the world championship. We are now working with Red Bull for a couple of years, but it still does not look that we will be able to challenge for the world title next year. Looking at the last couple of races it seems that we will be half a second short in Japan. Of course we will try everything to close the gap, but half a second you cannot catch up in two weeks’ time. The expectation was to close the gap to the competition, but at the moment it does not look like it. We have to work hard to close the gap, otherwise next year will be lost too.”

That doesn't sound good!

[Marti_EF3]

On Dutch television Jos Verstappen commented on the development pace of Red Bull/Honda. He said something along the lines: at the end of this year the gap with the Ferrari en Mercedes should be closed, otherwise next year will be another year of struggling. You could see some growing impatience within the Verstappen team. I cannot disagree.

More about the interview :

Through a Skype conversation in the tv programme Peptalk on Ziggo Sport father Jos looks back on the performance of his son in Russia, and he looks ahead to the remaining races of the season.

It should not take too long before he is going to deliver what we are all hoping for and he can challenge for the world title. “No, that is what we think too”, says the father of Aston Martin Red Bull Racing driver who today celebrated his twenty-second birthday: “We should have been closer, but that is more difficult than we thought. It is very frustrating. In the last races before the summer break it went really well, but after the summer break we did not progress while the other teams did. Max cannot change that, we depend on the team, the car is a bit behind, the engine is a bit behind, more work has to be done on this combination if we want to challenge for the world title next year.”

Verstappen senior continues: “We are very concerned if there will be any improvement in the short term, we will talk to the team to see what can be done. We depend on the equipment we get and at the moment it is not good enough.”

Asked if it is discouraging now and then, Jos answers: “Seeing Max’ performance, put him in a good car and he will challenge for the world championship. We are now working with Red Bull for a couple of years, but it still does not look that we will be able to challenge for the world title next year. Looking at the last couple of races it seems that we will be half a second short in Japan. Of course we will try everything to close the gap, but half a second you cannot catch up in two weeks’ time. The expectation was to close the gap to the competition, but at the moment it does not look like it. We have to work hard to close the gap, otherwise next year will be lost too.”

That doesn't sound good!

I think that sometimes he talks too much. Heads down and be a team, please.