Mercedes W11

[BrunoH]

Don't believe what you read on a social media fan site.

yeah its just too good of a coincidence.... lolllll if we know something about f1... they never fully let you know what they are doing... same as ferrari engine tweeks last year..
plus he is pushing a button everytime he is pushing the sterring or pulling in... yeah marker my ass....

Except Ferrari never got convicted for any breach of the regulations.

And the exact same thing is true for Mercedes: just because you yell "illegal" does not make something illegal.

We handled the Ferrari engine controversy with care, making sure illegality was talked in the sense of hypotheses, not in the sense of accusations. That worked very well. So the same will be true for Mercedes. Unless there is a direct conviction by the stewards and/or the fia tribunal, we cannot assume illegality. We can discuss the specific regulations that would apply for legality/illegality, just as we did just fine up to this point. Anything else will be considered as spam or instigation.

True, its a smart workaround the rules.
very genius to be fair..
plus sky also say they press a button to move the steering also.. so... ted to be fair.
anyway my take on this is they are masking it with this ( marker button ) but time will tell.
im sure they have a lock, otherwise its dangerous... however if he has to press a button to move it.... then for me is illegal...
time will tell

[Mark4211]

yeah its just too good of a coincidence.... lolllll if we know something about f1... they never fully let you know what they are doing... same as ferrari engine tweeks last year..
plus he is pushing a button everytime he is pushing the sterring or pulling in... yeah marker my ass....

Except Ferrari never got convicted for any breach of the regulations.

And the exact same thing is true for Mercedes: just because you yell "illegal" does not make something illegal.

We handled the Ferrari engine controversy with care, making sure illegality was talked in the sense of hypotheses, not in the sense of accusations. That worked very well. So the same will be true for Mercedes. Unless there is a direct conviction by the stewards and/or the fia tribunal, we cannot assume illegality. We can discuss the specific regulations that would apply for legality/illegality, just as we did just fine up to this point. Anything else will be considered as spam or instigation.

True, its a smart workaround the rules.
very genius to be fair..
plus sky also say they press a button to move the steering also.. so... ted to be fair.
anyway my take on this is they are masking it with this ( marker button ) but time will tell.
im sure they have a lock, otherwise its dangerous... however if he has to press a button to move it.... then for me is illegal...
time will tell

The button press only inserts a Marker into the Telemetry

This appears when he pulls the steering wheel
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERNd8vzU8AIk2je.png:large
Via @Danny10_DotCom

He's pressing the 'MARK' button, can be seen with his right thumb. This sets a remark in the Telemetry when reviewing

[pantherxxx]

"DAS does effectively change the aero of the car on the front end. Even if it's not immediate, front wheels are part of the aero of the car. Sky Italy claims that other teams' lawyers are working on considering the DAS active aero"

[Xwang]

I am wondering what type of data related to suspension setup teams have to give to FIA before the race.
Because I suspect that there will be
a) left and right front wheel toe angle at zero angle steering wheel command
or
b) differential front toe angle at zero angle steering wheel command

What happens if the angle does not match with the one measured by scrutineers after the race?

[sucof]

It's not part of the setup, it's part of the steering. It's not a geometry change any different than turning the steering wheel is a geometry change

As discussed above: this is not steering. Just because it is done with the steering wheel, it does not change the direction of the car. Following this logic: any button you press on the steering wheel is steering too? If they would have added a separate lever to change the toe, nobody would think that this is a new method of steering.
I also think that the reason they told us what is the name of this new concept, is to influence our thinking that this is steering, while it is not.

You cannot add a separate lever to change toe, it won't comply with 10.2.1

10.2.1 With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom.

Being changed by the steering wheel is what turns it legal.

"You cannot add a separate lever to change toe, it won't comply with 10.2.1"
Exactly. That is why it is done with the steering wheel! The only genius in this is that they did not add a separate lever to do the this, but added to the steering wheel, so now they can trick people's mind that it is a part of the steering system.


James Allison told a reporter that this is a part of the steering system. This means to me that they know that it is not, but they keep trying to convince people and the FIA that handle this as steering, because this is the only way that this can be deemed legal.

[OO7]

"DAS does effectively change the aero of the car on the front end. Even if it's not immediate, front wheels are part of the aero of the car. Sky Italy claims that other teams' lawyers are working on considering the DAS active aero"

Steering the wheels in an ordinary fashion could also be considered movable aero, albeit aero being a secondary effect. I'm sure Mercedes would argue that the aero effect is secondary.

[Chene_Mostert]

However: if the driver pulls or pushes the steering wheel, the car does not change direction, meaning, that this is not steering.

The question is: is steering defined as making the car change direction?
Yes, as per Oxford:
Steering: the mechanism in a vehicle, vessel, or aircraft which makes it possible to steer it in different directions.
Steer:guide or control the direction of (a vehicle, vessel, or aircraft), for example by turning a wheel or operating a rudder.

As far as I can see steering is only defined as changing the toe angle(s) of no more than two wheels.

No, I could not find any reference to "toe angle" in the rule link you provided, this is a portion you added to enable you to try and define steering in a way as to make the rule "fit" the definition

Under Article 1: Defintion, neither steering wheel nor steering are defined. Instead land vehicle is defined with this statement...
Land, Vehicle, propulsion are also not defined to name a few. But we all know what they are?

ARTICLE 1: DEFINITIONS
1.1 Formula One Car :
An automobile designed solely for speed races on circuits or closed courses.
1.2 Automobile :
A land vehicle running on at least four non‐aligned complete wheels, of which at least two are
used for steering and at least two for propulsion.
1.3 Land vehicle :
A locomotive device propelled by its own means, moving by constantly taking real support on
the earth's surface, of which the propulsion and steering are under the control of a driver
aboard the vehicle.

ARTICLE 10 : SUSPENSION AND STEERING SYSTEMS
10.4 Steering :
10.4.1 Any steering system which permits the re‐alignment of more than two wheels is not
permitted.

https://www.fia.com/file/78015/download/26184

The driver is indeed in control of the Mercedes DAS system, so it seems to comply IMO. At least two wheels are used for steering, so that complies. No more than two wheels are used for steering, so that also complies.

[Mr.G]

What about kerbs or "jumps"? If they played it safe they can not have safety latch/button (it would be ilegall)...

If the car is for some reason pushed away of the ideal line and jumps over a kerb and it is not fixed it would be quite odd feeling (potentially dangerous and unsafe) when the steering wheel moves front and back..

[Oehrly]

What about kerbs or "jumps"? If they played it safe they can not have safety latch/button (it would be ilegall)...

If the car is for some reason pushed away of the ideal line and jumps over a kerb and it is not fixed it would be quite odd feeling (potentially dangerous and unsafe) when the steering wheel moves front and back..

There are mechanical solutions, like a worm drive, that only move when force is applied on the input but not when applied on the output.

[Sevach]

[Mr.G]

What about kerbs or "jumps"? If they played it safe they can not have safety latch/button (it would be ilegall)...

If the car is for some reason pushed away of the ideal line and jumps over a kerb and it is not fixed it would be quite odd feeling (potentially dangerous and unsafe) when the steering wheel moves front and back..

There are mechanical solutions, like a worm drive, that only move when force is applied on the input but not when applied on the output.

Maybe, and maybe the reflexes cause that the driver will move it...

[PhillipM]

What about kerbs or "jumps"? If they played it safe they can not have safety latch/button (it would be ilegall)...

If the car is for some reason pushed away of the ideal line and jumps over a kerb and it is not fixed it would be quite odd feeling (potentially dangerous and unsafe) when the steering wheel moves front and back..

No worse than the steering already kicking over kerbs. Especially if it's also assisted off the rack hydraulics

[rogazilla]

if there is no lock, I imagine some contact with another car's wheel to the front could unsettle the steering wheel or change the toe?! That'd be pretty unsettling. How strong can the [worm drive] or [other mechanical devce] be to withstand some of the contact force while remain movable by steering column?

[F1Krof]

[PhillipM]

if there is no lock, I imagine some contact with another car's wheel to the front could unsettle the steering wheel or change the toe?! That'd be pretty unsettling. How strong can the [worm drive] or [other mechanical devce] be to withstand some of the contact force while remain movable by steering column?

Again, nothing that doesn't already happen with the steering wheel anyway.