[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Macklaren]

In the short term McLaren portfolio is safe, but for the long term they need a drivetrain partner to replace their ageing Nissan V8

The new Sports Series model to be launched next year will have a hybridized V6TT so they are already moving away from the V8

[Emag]

However crippled this season may be, I feel like it is going to be a very important one for McLaren.
It is the first "full" season for McLaren with the team that was put together by Zak. They have to show everyone, but most importantly, themselves, that this new team can work very well together and bring further improvements to continue on the trend set on 2019.

[mwillems]

McLaren and Tesla both make cars and are relative young companies. The comparison stops there. Where Tesla is competing with Audi, BMW, VW, Lexus, etc etc, McLaren is in the Lambo and Ferrari realm.

Compared to Lambo and Ferrari, a McLaren has a couple of problems. Their whole portfolio is build around one big investment: the Nissan V8 and the carbon tub. Somewhere soon they need a big investment to renew those two pillars. Lamborghini and Ferrari are of course part of bigger automotive companies (VW and FCA), not only makes this development cheaper, the use of developed parts shared with more cars (and make the development cost per unit lower) but also have a secondary use as the brands halo products. FCO or VW AG wouldn’t worry to much if Ferrari or Lamborghini don’t make so much money a few years, while a company like McLaren is in trouble right away.

So. For instance, the twin turbo V8, how long before their competition comes with their next gen and does McLaren have enough resources to counter this? At the moment a TT V8 of around 3.8 -4.0 is the gold standard, but for how long?

But that's my point, Tesla are not a competitor to Mclaren and there isn't much else around to compete, Ferrari has a plug in but then so does Mclaren, with another plug in hybrid on the way.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... n-bodywork

My point, badly written probably, was that if you want speedy electric then it is here, and it isn't affecting Mclaren.
In terms of Hybrid, we are already there and going to plug in very soon. We don't need a fully EV car right now, it's just not necessary.

You don’t need one now but you do need to invest now in the next gen of power plant to be ready when you need it, else you’re going to be caught out.

This investments will take millions if not billions. Look at how VW AG is taking these steps with the VW ID and the new Porsche. This means they will have a platform ready for Lambo when the market demands it. AMG is busy incorporating new tech in their engines and so on.

In the short term McLaren portfolio is safe, but for the long term they need a drivetrain partner to replace their ageing Nissan V8

On that I don't disagree at all, they will need something, although Mclaren themselves have publicly ruled it out as it goes against their lightweight philosophy.

But I was replying to this from FW17:

"At this moment they do not have an electric portfolio, neither will they be able to develop one as they do not have funds. finding investments is going to be difficult unless it is a govt. bailout."

Which seemed to suggest that not having an EV powertrain or not yet having tried to develop one would stop or deter investors, that is the point I disagree on. The Tesla reference was just to show that there are fast electric cars for half the price and all the while that those cars have been here, Mclaren have gone from selling a few hundred cars a year to near 5000.

[adrianjordan]

How do we know they haven't already spoken to suppliers about a future EV powertrain?

If they can buy an engine from somewhere else they can buy an EV powertrain.

I highly doubt the management are that inept that aren't at least exploring that area. Just because it's not in a car now, or a future model that has been announced yet, does not mean that there isn't a project on a drawing board and preliminary discussions taking place behind closed doors.

Also, all the comparisons with Tesla, yet Tesla has yet to make a profit...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/woodmacken ... rofit/amp/

[diffuser]

It’s definitely a tricky time for McLaren, like a lot of other businesses around the world. But generally speaking, F1 is a badly run sport, there’s very little reward for high expenditures, the covid crisis has exposed this even more. But I get the impression McLaren believe they will be fine. They know what they have to do, even though it’s going to be extremely difficult and painful, but their sights are set on getting back to the front. Listening to Zak recently, he’s been very forward thinking, looking ahead and seemingly quite optimistic about 2022 onwards. He doesn’t sound cautious because of their present struggles like someone fighting simply for survival. They’re looking forward to the future. I sincerely hope this is the case.

Why does McLaren having financial problems have anything to do with F1? Not like Liberty Media is short money.

[mwillems]

How do we know they haven't already spoken to suppliers about a future EV powertrain?

If they can buy an engine from somewhere else they can buy an EV powertrain.

I highly doubt the management are that inept that aren't at least exploring that area. Just because it's not in a car now, or a future model that has been announced yet, does not mean that there isn't a project on a drawing board and preliminary discussions taking place behind closed doors.

Also, all the comparisons with Tesla, yet Tesla has yet to make a profit...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/woodmacken ... rofit/amp/

I agree, I think it won't be an issue for them to partner up and get a powertrain, but others seem to think not.

Mclaren have ruled it out for now anyway.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/368743/no-mc ... ercar-yet/

Mclaren spokesperson view:

"However, weight is the reason for the McLaren electric hypercar’s delay. Corstorphine told the publication that McLaren would rather wait to deliver the best electric hypercar it can while respecting the company’s lightness philosophy. Electric vehicles offer exceptional performance, but they’re also heavy, which can hinder performance and the overall driving experience. If McLaren is going to build and produce an electric hypercar, then it’ll do it right. "



Anyway this is all off topic which was originally about the viability of Mclaren Racing, which is affected by the viability of Mclaren Holdings and Automotive.

[ThePapayaJaguar]

With Mercedes and Ferrari bringing new upgrades, I'm wondering what McLaren will bring. Would like to see new, more aggressive bargeboards.

[diffuser]

How do we know they haven't already spoken to suppliers about a future EV powertrain?

If they can buy an engine from somewhere else they can buy an EV powertrain.

I highly doubt the management are that inept that aren't at least exploring that area. Just because it's not in a car now, or a future model that has been announced yet, does not mean that there isn't a project on a drawing board and preliminary discussions taking place behind closed doors.

Also, all the comparisons with Tesla, yet Tesla has yet to make a profit...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/woodmacken ... rofit/amp/

I agree, I think it won't be an issue for them to partner up and get a powertrain, but others seem to think not.

Mclaren have ruled it out for now anyway.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/368743/no-mc ... ercar-yet/

Mclaren spokesperson view:

"However, weight is the reason for the McLaren electric hypercar’s delay. Corstorphine told the publication that McLaren would rather wait to deliver the best electric hypercar it can while respecting the company’s lightness philosophy. Electric vehicles offer exceptional performance, but they’re also heavy, which can hinder performance and the overall driving experience. If McLaren is going to build and produce an electric hypercar, then it’ll do it right. "



Anyway this is all off topic which was originally about the viability of Mclaren Racing, which is affected by the viability of Mclaren Holdings and Automotive.

Interpretartion, our electric hypercar is not at par with the competion.

Tesla is a publicly traded company and it's stock is trading at $1K US a share. So they are raising finacing. People have a HUGE confidence they will turn a profit, otherwise the stock price would drop like a rock. They have been in the electric car buisness for a while now. Sure they have MANY lessons learned.

[mwillems]

How do we know they haven't already spoken to suppliers about a future EV powertrain?

If they can buy an engine from somewhere else they can buy an EV powertrain.

I highly doubt the management are that inept that aren't at least exploring that area. Just because it's not in a car now, or a future model that has been announced yet, does not mean that there isn't a project on a drawing board and preliminary discussions taking place behind closed doors.

Also, all the comparisons with Tesla, yet Tesla has yet to make a profit...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/woodmacken ... rofit/amp/

I agree, I think it won't be an issue for them to partner up and get a powertrain, but others seem to think not.

Mclaren have ruled it out for now anyway.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/368743/no-mc ... ercar-yet/

Mclaren spokesperson view:

"However, weight is the reason for the McLaren electric hypercar’s delay. Corstorphine told the publication that McLaren would rather wait to deliver the best electric hypercar it can while respecting the company’s lightness philosophy. Electric vehicles offer exceptional performance, but they’re also heavy, which can hinder performance and the overall driving experience. If McLaren is going to build and produce an electric hypercar, then it’ll do it right. "



Anyway this is all off topic which was originally about the viability of Mclaren Racing, which is affected by the viability of Mclaren Holdings and Automotive.

Interpretartion, our electric hypercar is not at par with the competion.

Tesla is a publicly traded company and it's stock is trading at $1K US a share. So they are raising finacing. People have a HUGE confidence they will turn a profit, otherwise the stock price would drop like a rock. They have been in the electric car buisness for a while now. Sure they have MANY lessons learned.

It's a very subjective interpretation I think. It may be the right one but I dont think so. Batteries are pretty standard for everyone, very heavy and the tech hasn't developed past that yet, which indicates a design choice to me.

Again I wasnt comparing Teslas EV business to McLaren, just the fact the even with fully electric, affordable and extremely fast cars (and electric hypercars out there), Mclarens have still sold as many cars as they could make, increasing production by a huge scale.

Tesla is great and profitable, but how does this impact McLaren??

If you're trying to say that EVs are more popular, there are a lot of niche EV hypercars, none have particularly taken off apart from the Lotus, which at track speed, lasts for 7 minutes before you charge it for several hours. That's not Mclaren. The Porsche Taycan EV has a 62 mile range in optimal conditions or 5 minutes of racing..... Sorry but that is an absolute novelty. Yes it has a range of 200+ miles but I'm sur eit's easy to understand that Mclaren build race cars that can go to the track. If that is all you can do to enjoy your car at the track, it's pretty awful and pointless.

In fact having just read more about EV hypercars, several mainstream manufacturers have all said battery tech wont be ready until 2025 at the earliest to start making EV the norm. So for me this argument is full of holes, I'm sorry.

Mclaren are absolutely fine without EV as I suggested 23 (mad up number) posts back......

But why are we talking about this??

This is Porsche agreeing with Mclarens current view of EV hypercars:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/moto ... ty-porsche

[Snorked]

MCLAREN HOLDINGS LIMITED / U.S. BANK TRUSTEES LIMITED court document - https://pdfhost.io/v/JNNyCbaII_Microsof ... 24docx.pdf

McLaren need to raise £280m no later than July 17 2020 to be able to support continued operations going into 2021.

[lio007]

MCLAREN HOLDINGS LIMITED / U.S. BANK TRUSTEES LIMITED court document - https://pdfhost.io/v/JNNyCbaII_Microsof ... 24docx.pdf

McLaren need to raise £280m no later than July 17 2020 to be able to support continued operations going into 2021.

Wow...so they are in a critical situation?

[Jolle]

MCLAREN HOLDINGS LIMITED / U.S. BANK TRUSTEES LIMITED court document - https://pdfhost.io/v/JNNyCbaII_Microsof ... 24docx.pdf

McLaren need to raise £280m no later than July 17 2020 to be able to support continued operations going into 2021.

Wow...so they are in a critical situation?

They might, but they have these every couple of months. To get the best deal the company has many short term loans that need to be redone every few years.

[FW17]

If you're trying to say that EVs are more popular, there are a lot of niche EV hypercars, none have particularly taken off apart from the Lotus, which at track speed, lasts for 7 minutes before you charge it for several hours. That's not Mclaren. The Porsche Taycan EV has a 62 mile range in optimal conditions or 5 minutes of racing..... Sorry but that is an absolute novelty. Yes it has a range of 200+ miles but I'm sur eit's easy to understand that Mclaren build race cars that can go to the track. If that is all you can do to enjoy your car at the track, it's pretty awful and pointless.

In fact having just read more about EV hypercars, several mainstream manufacturers have all said battery tech wont be ready until 2025 at the earliest to start making EV the norm. So for me this argument is full of holes, I'm sorry.

Mclaren are absolutely fine without EV as I suggested 23 (mad up number) posts back......

But why are we talking about this??

This is Porsche agreeing with Mclarens current view of EV hypercars:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/moto ... ty-porsche

Some facts - a Tesla Model 3 performance is faster on track than an M3

A Nio EP9 is 2 seconds slower than a Mclaren p1

Is the p1 the lightest car on the road? What is this light weight philosophy Mclaren preaches?

The P1 with 16 gallons of fuel will manage how many miles on track? 2mpg to 5mpg? so what is the range on track?

You said a taycan cannot last 5 min on track; that would mean it wouldn't complete the Nordschleife, but it did. How?

[djos]

I’m a Tesla fan boy, but iirc a model 3 is faster for maybe a lap or two, they can’t maintain their performance for long without overheating.

[adrianjordan]

Plus every Tesla owner I know is obnoxious about it. Now that could be a coincidence, but I don't usually believe in those...