[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[Darth-Piekus]

Are you telling me that next years cars must have the same chassis and aerodynamics as this year?

[Ground Effect]

Now can you make a comparison of Mclaren Honda vs Mclaren Renault?

There are many differences than only engines. They have better organisation, better chasis, better drivers and better leadership structure. And the most important thing of them all - they got the harsh realization they were the problem.

I am pretty sure that current managment lineup would perform far better with Honda engines, as they did back then.

The next indicator of overall progresion of the team, will be instalation of Mercedes unit in the back of their car with all of the handicap they will face, since they wont be allowed to chase for pure performance.

Agreed - there’s been a good long look in the mirror and some hands held up to say hey- we needed to start from scratch and it’s made a huge difference.

Honda were just in their infancy and they needed time- they are much improved now as are McLaren the racing team. I still shiver at the Boullier era.

There’s a hunger and a humility about this team now- whereas 3 years ago it was entitlement. It feels like a huge cultural shift and IF this team ever gets back to the top again, man will they be much more fun and accessible.

Hopefully, the pit crew will do this as well....

[FittingMechanics]

I am pretty sure that they can create a new chassis fit for the Mercedes Engines and make the car better.

They will have to prove that the changes are necessary to fit the engine, they can't just change something that has no sense for the engine.

Are you telling me that next years cars must have the same chassis and aerodynamics as this year?

I don't have the exact rules that are specified, but my understanding is that there is only a limited amount allowed between the seasons, measures to reduce costs for the teams. Due to the fact that McLaren is changing engines, they are allowed to do more changes but ONLY to fit the engine, they cannot do aerodynamic work. Other teams will have limited amount of tokens.

I'm sure someone knows the details so please clarify.

[Darth-Piekus]

Ok but if the cars aren't allowed to be changed will they be the same as this year? Is it possible that James Key could find a loophole to that rule and make aerodynamic changes that can benefit us because of that engine change? Isn't also Racing Point pretty much screwed if they go next year with this car again cause this car can only offer little.

Isn't that unfair for the rest? They have just given Mercedes the next championship on a silver platter.

[SmallSoldier]

I am pretty sure that they can create a new chassis fit for the Mercedes Engines and make the car better.

They will have to prove that the changes are necessary to fit the engine, they can't just change something that has no sense for the engine.

Are you telling me that next years cars must have the same chassis and aerodynamics as this year?

I don't have the exact rules that are specified, but my understanding is that there is only a limited amount allowed between the seasons, measures to reduce costs for the teams. Due to the fact that McLaren is changing engines, they are allowed to do more changes but ONLY to fit the engine, they cannot do aerodynamic work. Other teams will have limited amount of tokens.

I'm sure someone knows the details so please clarify.

Teams were given 2 Tokens for performance improvement / changes towards 2021, this was done because of Mclaren (initially, development was supposed to be frozen)... The problem for Mclaren is that they will have to use both Tokens to install the Mercedes PU, therefore potentially losing performance versus the rest of the field.

The expectation from Mclaren is that the PU change will compensate the loss of potential improvement during the winter.


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[JRindt]

I have a feeling that Mclaren will pre-emptively upgrade their car just before the 2020 season ends to fit the mercedes PU. After all, they’ve known that they’ll use merc PU for quite sometime now and I won’t be surprised if the development for the last 6 months or so is done with that in mind.

[Darth-Piekus]

These rules are bullshit. They are giving Mercedes the next championship on a platter. The FIA will never change. Always setting up championship.s

[McFAN]

"Renault lodges protest against Racing Point"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... =widget-22

Happy it's not Mclaren protesting though.

[Emag]

It's honestly suspicious that they managed to get that copy so right first try. Specially because their previous concept had nothing to do whatsoever with Mercedes.

[proteus]

It's honestly suspicious that they managed to get that copy so right first try. Specially because their previous concept had nothing to do whatsoever with Mercedes.

If they really managed to make it only by their spy pictures, then this is a really impresive feat of forgery - albeit legal. If they got the blueprints under the table, then this is non sportsmanship but still legal-ish since it is a last years copy?

Ligier had something similar in 96, when they were practically using a 95 Benetton.

[the EDGE]

It's honestly suspicious that they managed to get that copy so right first try. Specially because their previous concept had nothing to do whatsoever with Mercedes.

It’s got many many genuine Mercedes parts... suspension, engine, gearbox... and everything they can legally buy from them (and here in lies the real problem), and it’s still considerably slower & handles terrible in the wet, so I wouldn’t say they got it right

How many teams used McLarens nose-cone design? McLaren didn’t give them the specs either

Sadly Renault will fail with this protest

[Ground Effect]

It's honestly suspicious that they managed to get that copy so right first try. Specially because their previous concept had nothing to do whatsoever with Mercedes.

It’s got many many genuine Mercedes parts... suspension, engine, gearbox... and everything they can legally buy from them (and here in lies the real problem), and it’s still considerably slower & handles terrible in the wet, so I wouldn’t say they got it right

How many teams used McLarens nose-cone design? McLaren didn’t give them the specs either

Sadly Renault will fail with this protest

With the historical closeness between Toto and Lawrence Stroll, plus recent developments with Toto buying shares, not to mention Mercedes being silent on the whole matter, not even expressing surprise, admiration etc. The whole arrangement is highly suspicious. Renault have chosen to protest now, maybe they have gotten sufficient evidence to make a case?

[the EDGE]

It's honestly suspicious that they managed to get that copy so right first try. Specially because their previous concept had nothing to do whatsoever with Mercedes.

It’s got many many genuine Mercedes parts... suspension, engine, gearbox... and everything they can legally buy from them (and here in lies the real problem), and it’s still considerably slower & handles terrible in the wet, so I wouldn’t say they got it right

How many teams used McLarens nose-cone design? McLaren didn’t give them the specs either

Sadly Renault will fail with this protest

With the historical closeness between Toto and Lawrence Stroll, plus recent developments with Toto buying shares, not to mention Mercedes being silent on the whole matter, not even expressing surprise, admiration etc. The whole arrangement is highly suspicious. Renault have chosen to protest now, maybe they have gotten sufficient evidence to make a case?

So you think Toto downloaded the entire car specks to a USB drive and smuggled them to his friend... or Mercedes as a whole conspired to cheat with Toto’s buddy?

Everything about that car bar the copied bodywork IS genuine Mercedes.. brakes, Steering, suspension, cooling, wiring looms... EVERYTHING. This would have cost 100s of millions for Merc to perfect and RP gets it for 10s of millions

It was simple for them to copy the rest from pictures then follow the normal design process to make it work somewhat like the the real thing... a decent F1 technical journalist probably could have done a decent job of this given the time and resources

If you want to stop this type of thing listed parts should be scrapped and bar engines, the teams should have to design & build everything themselves. Especially now we have the budget cap

[FittingMechanics]

They can't get blueprints from Mercedes. That would be illegal.

[Big Tea]

It’s got many many genuine Mercedes parts... suspension, engine, gearbox... and everything they can legally buy from them (and here in lies the real problem), and it’s still considerably slower & handles terrible in the wet, so I wouldn’t say they got it right

How many teams used McLarens nose-cone design? McLaren didn’t give them the specs either

Sadly Renault will fail with this protest

With the historical closeness between Toto and Lawrence Stroll, plus recent developments with Toto buying shares, not to mention Mercedes being silent on the whole matter, not even expressing surprise, admiration etc. The whole arrangement is highly suspicious. Renault have chosen to protest now, maybe they have gotten sufficient evidence to make a case?

So you think Toto downloaded the entire car specks to a USB drive and smuggled them to his friend... or Mercedes as a whole conspired to cheat with Toto’s buddy?

Everything about that car bar the copied bodywork IS genuine Mercedes.. brakes, Steering, suspension, cooling, wiring looms... EVERYTHING. This would have cost 100s of millions for Merc to perfect and RP gets it for 10s of millions

It was simple for them to copy the rest from pictures then follow the normal design process to make it work somewhat like the the real thing... a decent F1 technical journalist probably could have done a decent job of this given the time and resources

If you want to stop this type of thing listed parts should be scrapped and bar engines, the teams should have to design & build everything themselves. Especially now we have the budget cap

I would not be surprised if he had not told him " look, we have half a dozen engineers looking for a job change, here are their phone numbers" but that is not illegal