[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[mwillems]

I don't get this "copy" argument, people copy ideas in F1 all the time, sometimes almost exactly. Designers like Newey stand in front of rival cars with notepads. Teams hire photographers to get other cars secrets

Ideas on the most efficient shapes converge over time until the next set of regulations. So they have done it more than anyone ever before, yes, but they haven't actually done anything different to what people have done during every season of F1. People copy and nobody drew a line to say you can't copy too much, because you can't do it reliably I don't think. The outcome is too subjective.

It's massively irritating that they have got ahead of us but it is what it is. We can't just throw the toys out the pram simply because a team is faster. If they copied then they will have a harder time upgrading, we can get our heads down and push on.

I don't get this attempted retort. Yes, teams copy ideas all the time. No, teams do not wholesale copy entire cars all the time. That is an obviously and objectively unique scenario and that's why people are responding to it differently. Feel about it however you want but don't lie and pretend it's a normal thing that happens all the time.

I'm my opinion you were confrontational and questioned my original assertion, which was that I didn't get why peopke were so bothered by it, not that it hasn't taken copying to another level.

Apparently to feel that way or express that opinion is a lie or a retort. But yeah, I'm being confrontational.

[FittingMechanics]

I don’t think that Carlos first pit stop was due to tire wear, since Lando managed to get his tires to last 39 laps... It was more an strategical stop to prevent the undercut by RIC himself, RIC closed the gap to less than a second and beyond been under attack by RIC the main concern could have been an stop by RIC into Hard tires and been stuck behind him in the second stint.

Carlos pace in the second stint as we all know was hampered not only by losing in excess of 4 seconds, but also coming out in the middle of traffic and wearing the tires too early into the stint.

You are completely right. Carlos said it himself in an interview, they pitted to protect against an undercut only to have an issue in the pitstop which caused him to come out in middle of traffic and forced him to fight for positions. After that his tires were toast and he was unable to go on from there.

[Marc.W]

This weeks unboxed

[diffuser]

I don’t think that Carlos first pit stop was due to tire wear, since Lando managed to get his tires to last 39 laps... It was more an strategical stop to prevent the undercut by RIC himself, RIC closed the gap to less than a second and beyond been under attack by RIC the main concern could have been an stop by RIC into Hard tires and been stuck behind him in the second stint.

Carlos pace in the second stint as we all know was hampered not only by losing in excess of 4 seconds, but also coming out in the middle of traffic and wearing the tires too early into the stint.

You are completely right. Carlos said it himself in an interview, they pitted to protect against an undercut only to have an issue in the pitstop which caused him to come out in middle of traffic and forced him to fight for positions. After that his tires were toast and he was unable to go on from there.

no doudt the pit stop was painful....

Likely Carlos had no idea why they pitted him....

Lando didn't have a car that started on soft tires (yellow stripe) behind him. The under cut from who Ricardo who had soft tires that were expected to go atleast 10 laps longer than Super soft (red stripe)?

If you look at lap 27, Ricardo was 2 seconds behind Sainz. On lap 31 Ricardo was now in the DRS zone , less than 1 second, they pitted him on lap 32. Ricardo was averaging about .2 of a second a lap faster. Perez and stroll had fallen back to 2.5 seconds (perez 3.5 sec) cause they were fighting each other. The next car was Norris... During that same time Sainz's gap to Albon went from 2.5 to 3.8.


I will add that Norris was falling further and further behind both Ric and Perez in those laps from 32 to 40 when he pitted (about .5 a lap) ... so he was out there but the tires were done.

[FittingMechanics]

no doudt the pit stop was painful....

Likely Carlos had no idea why they pitted him....

Lando didn't have a car that started on soft tires (yellow stripe) behind him. The under cut from who Ricardo who had soft tires that were expected to go atleast 10 laps longer than Super soft (red stripe)?

If you look at lap 27, Ricardo was 2 seconds behind Sainz. On lap 31 Ricardo was now in the DRS zone , less than 1 second, they pitted him on lap 32. Ricardo was averaging about .2 of a second a lap faster. Perez and stroll had fallen back to 2.5 seconds (perez 3.5 sec) cause they were fighting each other. The next car was Norris... During that same time Sainz's gap to Albon went from 2.5 to 3.8.


I will add that Norris was falling further and further behind both Ric and Perez in those laps from 32 to 40 when he pitted (about .5 a lap) ... so he was out there but the tires were done.

Well Sainz himself said they pitted to protect against an undercut, he did not specify undercut by whom but perhaps they meant undercut by Stroll and Perez as you are right to point out that Ricciardo was probably going further. Once Ricciardo got into DRS range, Sainz would have to defend and lose even more time and further expose him to an undercut by RP.

[diffuser]

no doudt the pit stop was painful....

Likely Carlos had no idea why they pitted him....

Lando didn't have a car that started on soft tires (yellow stripe) behind him. The under cut from who Ricardo who had soft tires that were expected to go atleast 10 laps longer than Super soft (red stripe)?

If you look at lap 27, Ricardo was 2 seconds behind Sainz. On lap 31 Ricardo was now in the DRS zone , less than 1 second, they pitted him on lap 32. Ricardo was averaging about .2 of a second a lap faster. Perez and stroll had fallen back to 2.5 seconds (perez 3.5 sec) cause they were fighting each other. The next car was Norris... During that same time Sainz's gap to Albon went from 2.5 to 3.8.


I will add that Norris was falling further and further behind both Ric and Perez in those laps from 32 to 40 when he pitted (about .5 a lap) ... so he was out there but the tires were done.

Well Sainz himself said they pitted to protect against an undercut, he did not specify undercut by whom but perhaps they meant undercut by Stroll and Perez as you are right to point out that Ricciardo was probably going further. Once Ricciardo got into DRS range, Sainz would have to defend and lose even more time and further expose him to an undercut by RP.

I don't really care if the pope said it. it doesn't mean he knew. It's not like they had had the post race review at that point.

if that makes sense to you ? fine. to me it's it doesn't.

Now that I've looked at it closely. KVY was the first of a 3 car train on Mediums and he was 17 seconds a drift. I would think they would have wanted to stay ahead of the Medium train and a 17 seconds pit stop was a really optimistic pit stop. He was alway gonna slot in after those 3. Rule #1 - You don't try an undercut but slotting yourself into traffic. Those cars on medium could endup doing another 10 laps....

So they either screwed up or they pitted cause his tires were dead.

[FittingMechanics]

Brake ducts are interesting for two reasons.
1. They have hidden internal areas which cannot be imaged by photographs, if they are the same as Mercedes ones, it's highly unlikely they got there on their own.
2. They were allowed to buy brake ducts in 2019, and they need to design them in 2020. If Racing Point just cut open a brake duct and copied it that way it is very likely to be in violation. There is a big difference from using publicly available images taken of a car on track (Mercedes) and cutting open a part and copying it.

I am guessing that Renault is fishing for those two reasons, it's possible Racing Point took a shortcut in designing the brake duct and they may be caught red handed.

[saputra_25]

I think it is contraproductive for mclaren to even bother what is RP doing with brake duct and the rest of their component. They just need to execute their development and upgrade plan and beat RP on track. Let FIA do their homewirk to police what is going on between RP and Mercedes

[djos]

2. They were allowed to buy brake ducts in 2019, and they need to design them in 2020. If Racing Point just cut open a brake duct and copied it that way it is very likely to be in violation. There is a big difference from using publicly available images taken of a car on track (Mercedes) and cutting open a part and copying it.

I am guessing that Renault is fishing for those two reasons, it's possible Racing Point took a shortcut in designing the brake duct and they may be caught red handed.

When you look at the photo's Marc Priestly posted in his recent video, the resemblance of the Tracing Point brake design to the W10 design, with the outer shell on and without, was pretty damming imo. Even small details were copied over like the little inward pointing arrow-like structures.

Actually motorsport.com has some good comparisons:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... t/4833399/

Personally I think Tracing Point are going to be in some serious trouble!

[gibells]

The question is whether FIA are going to do something about it. Those of you who follow English football will be aware that Man City were held account over the FFP (FIFA Fairplay) cost regs, and were going to be excluded from Champions League Football next year because they broke the agreement. They escaped the sanction by going to the CAS (Court for the Arbitration in Sport).

My point is that if FIA are serious about policing this, and indeed the upcoming budget restrictions, they need to ensure their laws are upheld and the sanctions followed through. Otherwise the teams will just make a mockery of the whole budget cap...

we will see

[Ground Effect]

From the motorsport article the other day, it appears a few teams are in support or agree that there’s something amiss with RP, something beyond merely copying. Just like the case with the budget cap, though McLaren were at the fore of discussions and public statements, a lot of other teams were in full support. They just couldn’t be vocal about it because of their status. I’d be surprised if McLaren and Williams aren’t happy behind the scenes that Renault are pursuing this. I also find it interesting that the comments were coming from Budkowski, who knows a thing or two about FIA rules. Every team has had something to say about the pink Mercedes, except Mercedes. Whether the FIA do something about it, is another matter, I won’t hold my breath. I just hope McLaren focus on their upgrade programme without expecting a helping hand from the FIA.

[Emag]

From the motorsport article the other day, it appears a few teams are in support or agree that there’s something amiss with RP, something beyond merely copying. Just like the case with the budget cap, though McLaren were at the fore of discussions and public statements, a lot of other teams were in full support. They just couldn’t be vocal about it because of their status. I’d be surprised if McLaren and Williams aren’t happy behind the scenes that Renault are pursuing this. I also find it interesting that the comments were coming from Budkowski, who knows a thing or two about FIA rules. Every team has had something to say about the pink Mercedes, except Mercedes. Whether the FIA do something about it, is another matter, I won’t hold my breath. I just hope McLaren focus on their upgrade programme without expecting a helping hand from the FIA.

McLaren were definitely pretty unhappy about this situation since the moment they saw that car. They have just decided that they will not be issuing any formal protests for that car.

[Lucky]

“We had our financial challenges during COVID, fortunately those are now behind us so we’ve got some sponsor announcements coming, we’ve raised our funding and [are] very excited to be in Formula 1 and in IndyCar racing and we’re very committed to both forms of motor racing long-term.”
https://the-race.com/indycar/mclaren-wo ... n-f1-cars/

[mclaren111]

From the motorsport article the other day, it appears a few teams are in support or agree that there’s something amiss with RP, something beyond merely copying. Just like the case with the budget cap, though McLaren were at the fore of discussions and public statements, a lot of other teams were in full support. They just couldn’t be vocal about it because of their status. I’d be surprised if McLaren and Williams aren’t happy behind the scenes that Renault are pursuing this. I also find it interesting that the comments were coming from Budkowski, who knows a thing or two about FIA rules. Every team has had something to say about the pink Mercedes, except Mercedes. Whether the FIA do something about it, is another matter, I won’t hold my breath. I just hope McLaren focus on their upgrade programme without expecting a helping hand from the FIA.

Agree... FIA are "cowards" and will never enforce their laws properly...

Just look at last year's fiasco with Ferrari PU...

[ScottR267]

“We had our financial challenges during COVID, fortunately those are now behind us so we’ve got some sponsor announcements coming, we’ve raised our funding and [are] very excited to be in Formula 1 and in IndyCar racing and we’re very committed to both forms of motor racing long-term.”
https://the-race.com/indycar/mclaren-wo ... n-f1-cars/

Good to see even more sponsorship announcements, not that there is much room on the car it seems these days, unless they remove duplicated stickers of the same brand! McLaren really look like a team back on the up on all fronts under Zak and Andreas! Roll on 2022 under the new rules!