[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[ENGINE TUNER]

The team say they have instituted "a chain of command that is more focused and simplified and provides the heads of each department the necessary powers to achieve their objectives"

Sometimes just giving people the power to do their job without having to debate everything in a committee, or deal with a micromanaging manager can pay huge dividends down the road.

Yes, but as someone pointed out earlier Ferrari look in need of a more synergistic approach to designing their var, which would require either more cooperation between departments or 1 person in control of everything, and Ferrari don't seem to have that singular Newey type designer that would lead the design.

[Ringleheim]

This change is way overdue and much needed, but it's the first step in the right direction for the future.

Sounds like they are investing the time and energy into getting the working organization correct now, while they still can, before having to worry about the new regulation car in 2 years.

It also sounds like they anticipate another dog of a Ferrari next year. That's OK. I've been saying for a while now they should throw away next season and make sure they get the new formula car correct, right out of the box.

If Mercedes is a half second or more ahead of the field when the new cars are launched, they will likely keep that advantage for years to come because you can't catch them. You advance, but they advance too.

Ferrari has to be strong out of the gate! Glad Rory Byrne has a hand in this. He's the only person left from the old Dream Team.

[mika vs michael]

Every now and then when things don't go as planned or well I hear about Rory Byrne coming back and working full time... Ferrari picked one of the best drivers available a quadruple world champion to lead the team on the track and they had to recruit people to build an equally strong or stronger team than Mercedes. They failed. What I hear from people and friends that studied aerodynamics and cfd in the UK and then spread all over Europe but had mates that worked inside teams is that Ferrari had a problem with the cfd...since testing became more and more limited they could not compete on the same level with other top teams. Maybe they need a better windtunnel and for sure they need to recruit people from everywhere. As Montezemelo stated recently in F1 you have to recruit the best regardless their passports and I keep hearing of people leaving Ferrari and not about people coming. OK Melkies the only newcomer...

[nacho]

I think they build a new wind tunnel not long ago.

[Jolle]

I think they build a new wind tunnel not long ago.

Well.. the Renzo Piano building is now over 20 years old, but should be still state of the art (I think it can handle 100% scale instead of the normal 60%) but it's plagued with correlation problems from the go. Sauber got quite a few years of free engines because Ferrari needed their tunnel....

[Harvester]

First I have to say that Mercedes success hasn't started since hybrid era. They probably had the fastest car even before. It just ate tires. Then working from that they worked hard to fix that and keep their speed, including political games in pushing tire development in direction it suited them. Also all rule changes since then suited their car. And then they also had the best engine and it was all over for other teams. Ferrari after Marchione took over recovered and had decent seasons but Mercedes was simply too good

They stopped having problems with tires when Pirelli changed them.

Pirelli changed the tires twice in the last decade, you mean the time that RedBull won the remainder of the races or that time after Ferrari had a double DNF at the British GP due to tires exploding?

The fact is that they had a lot less tire problems after secret test with pirelli.

[Jolle]

They stopped having problems with tires when Pirelli changed them.

Pirelli changed the tires twice in the last decade, you mean the time that RedBull won the remainder of the races or that time after Ferrari had a double DNF at the British GP due to tires exploding?

The fact is that they had a lot less tire problems after secret test with pirelli.

Everybody had but Mercedes los their speed. For the 2013 season Pirelli had kevlar bands instead of steel ones and somehow some teams (RedBull and Ferrari) found out if you run the rear wheels backwards, they warm up better. This lead to several failures (most notable during the British GP) and Pirelli run a test with the steel variant. Mercedes were no where on the new tire and RedBull won all the remainder of the races.

oh, and it was 7 years ago.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Pirelli changed the tires twice in the last decade, you mean the time that RedBull won the remainder of the races or that time after Ferrari had a double DNF at the British GP due to tires exploding?

The fact is that they had a lot less tire problems after secret test with pirelli.

Everybody had but Mercedes los their speed. For the 2013 season Pirelli had kevlar bands instead of steel ones and somehow some teams (RedBull and Ferrari) found out if you run the rear wheels backwards, they warm up better. This lead to several failures (most notable during the British GP) and Pirelli run a test with the steel variant. Mercedes were no where on the new tire and RedBull won all the remainder of the races.

oh, and it was 7 years ago.

That's not exactly how I remember it going down. Pirelli tried to save some money by switching from kevlar to steel belts, tires couldn't hold up so they had to switch back to kevlar.

The tire switching wasn't about tire warm up, it was about wear. They had to qually on the same tires that they started the race on(back then you started on Q3 tires, not q2). If a track wore the left side tires more than the right, then they would run them switched for qually, and then run them normal for the race in order to even out the wear. But radial belted tires don't really like to be run backwards much.

[zokipirlo]

Not talking about that, more toward thinner threads. When Mercedes was overheating them, they changed it first for few races in 2018 and keep that for 2019. They had the same problem also when Schumi was driving for them; they were very quick on qualification but destorying them on a race. With such a big gap they had in 2014 and 2015 this were hidden, because they could drive much more sensitive. and become more obvious in 2016 and 2017 and totally obvious in 2018 when Pirelli saved them. How they start to understand tires is just bullshit.

[sosic2121]

First I have to say that Mercedes success hasn't started since hybrid era. They probably had the fastest car even before. It just ate tires. Then working from that they worked hard to fix that and keep their speed, including political games in pushing tire development in direction it suited them. Also all rule changes since then suited their car. And then they also had the best engine and it was all over for other teams. Ferrari after Marchione took over recovered and had decent seasons but Mercedes was simply too good

They stopped having problems with tires when Pirelli changed them.

Pirelli changed the tires twice in the last decade, you mean the time that RedBull won the remainder of the races or that time after Ferrari had a double DNF at the British GP due to tires exploding?

So you believe mercedes wasn't the main benefitor of the tyre change?

[sosic2121]

Not talking about that, more toward thinner threads. When Mercedes was overheating them, they changed it first for few races in 2018 and keep that for 2019. They had the same problem also when Schumi was driving for them; they were very quick on qualification but destorying them on a race. With such a big gap they had in 2014 and 2015 this were hidden, because they could drive much more sensitive. and become more obvious in 2016 and 2017 and totally obvious in 2018 when Pirelli saved them. How they start to understand tires is just bullshit.

Just to add to your point.

2014 Russia, rosberg had massive lockup on lap 1 T2, and switched to prime tyre till the end. When engineer told this to Lewis, he asked if anyone is putting pressure on rosberg. Since no one was, Rosberg easily cruised to P2 without tyre change.

[Wynters]

They stopped having problems with tires when Pirelli changed them.

Pirelli changed the tires twice in the last decade, you mean the time that RedBull won the remainder of the races or that time after Ferrari had a double DNF at the British GP due to tires exploding?

So you believe mercedes wasn't the main benefitor of the tyre change?

Of the 2013 one? Have you looked at the last half of the season? To quote Newey ""I think we saw at the start of the season it was very tight. Ferrari started off very strong and Mercedes came on very strongly, and certainly going into August we were feeling that this was going to be really tough.

"And then I think we made some small improvements to the car, Pirelli also had to go back to the 2012 tyres which seemed to suit the car better and it suddenly fell into our hands."

Of the 2018 shift? They were used at the Spanish, French and British GPs. Mercedes finished (1/2, 1/7 and 2/4).That doesn't look like they'd gained any particular advantage against their normal 2018 performance. Nor that they'd been 'saved'.

Why don't you layout your specific comparative evidence, no vague generalities please?

[Wynters]

Not talking about that, more toward thinner threads. When Mercedes was overheating them, they changed it first for few races in 2018 and keep that for 2019. They had the same problem also when Schumi was driving for them; they were very quick on qualification but destorying them on a race. With such a big gap they had in 2014 and 2015 this were hidden, because they could drive much more sensitive. and become more obvious in 2016 and 2017 and totally obvious in 2018 when Pirelli saved them. How they start to understand tires is just bullshit.

Your theory appears to be that Mercedes had crippling tyre problems in 2012 and then made no progress in fixing them, for seven years?

In a sport built on constant technical innovation and improvement, and in specific regards to a team that is clearly extremely good at understanding the key problems of designing an F1 car (see their multiple championships across different regulation eras), that's a strong stance to take. Should I take it that the detailed evidence you are about to share is equally strong?

Ferrari could (and arguably should) have won at least won trophy in 2017 and 2018. That they didn't could be down to Mercedes forgetting about the use of tyres in F1 for most of a decade? Or, perhaps, there might have been sub-optimal outcomes on the Ferrari side?

[sosic2121]

Pirelli changed the tires twice in the last decade, you mean the time that RedBull won the remainder of the races or that time after Ferrari had a double DNF at the British GP due to tires exploding?

So you believe mercedes wasn't the main benefitor of the tyre change?

Of the 2013 one? Have you looked at the last half of the season? To quote Newey ""I think we saw at the start of the season it was very tight. Ferrari started off very strong and Mercedes came on very strongly, and certainly going into August we were feeling that this was going to be really tough.

"And then I think we made some small improvements to the car, Pirelli also had to go back to the 2012 tyres which seemed to suit the car better and it suddenly fell into our hands."

Of the 2018 shift? They were used at the Spanish, French and British GPs. Mercedes finished (1/2, 1/7 and 2/4).That doesn't look like they'd gained any particular advantage against their normal 2018 performance.

They gained last years championship because of the thin gauge tyres. New tyres sabotaged Ferrari. I won't say there was intention to handicap them, but you have to be blind not to see that.

Just as "you" have to be blind to believe that last years straight performance was due to HP, when it was obvious they had low drag/df concept. Same low DF that ruined their tyres. FFS they had same DF setup in Spain and in Monaco.

I'm not saying that they haven't lost any power, but if they where faster last year and slower this year only because power difference, then I guess they had to loose 200hp.

[Wynters]

They gained last years championship because of the thin gauge tyres. New tyres sabotaged Ferrari. I won't say there was intention to handicap them, but you have to be blind not to see that.

There's no evidence in this statement. And you've expanded your claim to include Pirelli sabotaging Ferrari.