[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[Jolle]

Not talking about that, more toward thinner threads. When Mercedes was overheating them, they changed it first for few races in 2018 and keep that for 2019. They had the same problem also when Schumi was driving for them; they were very quick on qualification but destorying them on a race. With such a big gap they had in 2014 and 2015 this were hidden, because they could drive much more sensitive. and become more obvious in 2016 and 2017 and totally obvious in 2018 when Pirelli saved them. How they start to understand tires is just bullshit.

Just to add to your point.

2014 Russia, rosberg had massive lockup on lap 1 T2, and switched to prime tyre till the end. When engineer told this to Lewis, he asked if anyone is putting pressure on rosberg. Since no one was, Rosberg easily cruised to P2 without tyre change.

Massa did the same. Because of the fresh track and conservative tire choice, everyone could do the whole GP on softs if they wanted to.

Do a little more research before making ridiculous claims. 2014 and beyond had nothing to do with tires but all with a terrible car Ferrari designed. The whole front suspension was of a “let’s try this double floor again” level of stupidity.

[nacho]

I think they build a new wind tunnel not long ago.

Well.. the Renzo Piano building is now over 20 years old, but should be still state of the art (I think it can handle 100% scale instead of the normal 60%) but it's plagued with correlation problems from the go. Sauber got quite a few years of free engines because Ferrari needed their tunnel....

It was redone and opened in 2013.

[zokipirlo]

Not talking about that, more toward thinner threads. When Mercedes was overheating them, they changed it first for few races in 2018 and keep that for 2019. They had the same problem also when Schumi was driving for them; they were very quick on qualification but destorying them on a race. With such a big gap they had in 2014 and 2015 this were hidden, because they could drive much more sensitive. and become more obvious in 2016 and 2017 and totally obvious in 2018 when Pirelli saved them. How they start to understand tires is just bullshit.

Your theory appears to be that Mercedes had crippling tyre problems in 2012 and then made no progress in fixing them, for seven years?

In a sport built on constant technical innovation and improvement, and in specific regards to a team that is clearly extremely good at understanding the key problems of designing an F1 car (see their multiple championships across different regulation eras), that's a strong stance to take. Should I take it that the detailed evidence you are about to share is equally strong?

Ferrari could (and arguably should) have won at least won trophy in 2017 and 2018. That they didn't could be down to Mercedes forgetting about the use of tyres in F1 for most of a decade? Or, perhaps, there might have been sub-optimal outcomes on the Ferrari side?

No they didn't solve the main problem. In 2018 they "solved" that problem with holes after the summer break, which were then they scary to use at the end when Ferrari said it would complain and championship was also more or less decided. It's not just those 3 races. They were important to stay in contact with Ferrari (point wise), which pressured Vettel even more... ok, that's another story.

[sosic2121]

They gained last years championship because of the thin gauge tyres. New tyres sabotaged Ferrari. I won't say there was intention to handicap them, but you have to be blind not to see that.

There's no evidence in this statement. And you've expanded your claim to include Pirelli sabotaging Ferrari.

Well there no hard proof got pretty much anything in F1. As I said, I am not going to blame Pirelli, thin gauge tyres crippled Ferrari last year. Just check few of their races and compare it to Mercedes and then do the same in 2018. It's obvious that tyres shifted towards Mercedes. Actually that prompted Ferrari to abandon LD concept when designing 2020 car. That's why the car is actually decent in corners and is not shredding the tyres any more.

[sosic2121]

Not talking about that, more toward thinner threads. When Mercedes was overheating them, they changed it first for few races in 2018 and keep that for 2019. They had the same problem also when Schumi was driving for them; they were very quick on qualification but destorying them on a race. With such a big gap they had in 2014 and 2015 this were hidden, because they could drive much more sensitive. and become more obvious in 2016 and 2017 and totally obvious in 2018 when Pirelli saved them. How they start to understand tires is just bullshit.

Just to add to your point.

2014 Russia, rosberg had massive lockup on lap 1 T2, and switched to prime tyre till the end. When engineer told this to Lewis, he asked if anyone is putting pressure on rosberg. Since no one was, Rosberg easily cruised to P2 without tyre change.

Massa did the same. Because of the fresh track and conservative tire choice, everyone could do the whole GP on softs if they wanted to.

Do a little more research before making ridiculous claims. 2014 and beyond had nothing to do with tires but all with a terrible car Ferrari designed. The whole front suspension was of a “let’s try this double floor again” level of stupidity.

Basically, you confirmed what I said. Anyone could do it, even Mercedes if not pushing hard enough. It's just Mercedes was P2 when not pushing.

[Jolle]

Just to add to your point.

2014 Russia, rosberg had massive lockup on lap 1 T2, and switched to prime tyre till the end. When engineer told this to Lewis, he asked if anyone is putting pressure on rosberg. Since no one was, Rosberg easily cruised to P2 without tyre change.

Massa did the same. Because of the fresh track and conservative tire choice, everyone could do the whole GP on softs if they wanted to.

Do a little more research before making ridiculous claims. 2014 and beyond had nothing to do with tires but all with a terrible car Ferrari designed. The whole front suspension was of a “let’s try this double floor again” level of stupidity.

Basically, you confirmed what I said. Anyone could do it, even Mercedes if not pushing hard enough. It's just Mercedes was P2 when not pushing.

Which had nothing to do with the tires, they were just faster and Rosberg made use of a giant undercut because tires didn't degrade on the Sochi track (they still don't, even with super-ultra soft tires and a 6 year old track)

[Wynters]

Well there no hard proof...

Your theory appears to be that Mercedes had crippling tyre problems in 2012 and then made no progress in fixing them, for seven years?

No they didn't solve the main problem.

So there's no proof and the key planks of the argument are vague assertions and the certainty that, in seven years, no member of the most successful F1 design team in history has worked out how to manage tyres that every other team apparently has?

Well, I'm convinced.

[sosic2121]

Well there no hard proof...

Your theory appears to be that Mercedes had crippling tyre problems in 2012 and then made no progress in fixing them, for seven years?

No they didn't solve the main problem.

So there's no proof and the key planks of the argument are vague assertions and the certainty that, in seven years, no member of the most successful F1 design team in history has worked out how to manage tyres that every other team apparently has?

Well, I'm convinced.

Lol
Well, they managed to work that out, haven't they, since I they don't have any issues during the last 2 years.

[J0ker]

They gained last years championship because of the thin gauge tyres. New tyres sabotaged Ferrari. I won't say there was intention to handicap them, but you have to be blind not to see that.

There's no evidence in this statement. And you've expanded your claim to include Pirelli sabotaging Ferrari.

Well there no hard proof got pretty much anything in F1. As I said, I am not going to blame Pirelli, thin gauge tyres crippled Ferrari last year. Just check few of their races and compare it to Mercedes and then do the same in 2018. It's obvious that tyres shifted towards Mercedes. Actually that prompted Ferrari to abandon LD concept when designing 2020 car. That's why the car is actually decent in corners and is not shredding the tyres any more.

Don't forget that in 2018 Pirelli made specijal "shaved" tyres for 2 or 3 races that suited Mercedes (they had problem with overheating tyres on newly surfaced race track), and then for the next season they changed the tyres for every one. In these races Ferrari had difficulties warming up tyres just as same as last season. Do not get me wrong, I might not be right, but as Ferrari fan I never supported favoritism in F1 and this with the tyres for sure puts a great shadow of doubt.

[GPR-A]

On every team thread, there are a few posters (not many, just one or two) who have this insane, illogical thought process that, somehow things have been done to help Mercedes, by FIA and Pirelli. While here the talk is about how Pirelli helped Mercedes and the talk on Red Bull team thread is about how the simplified front wing was brought to damage Red Bull. On Mercedes team thread, there are a few who constantly peddle the conspiracy theory of how Mercedes is favoring Lewis and undermining the other guy. No one wants to believe that Mercedes has been doing a better job of building cars that works well on any given regulations since 2014 and they are driving the team better than anyone else.

No matter how logical you want to argue, these guys aren't going to believe, because their thought process is like the substance that keeps them happy. Red Bull and Ferrari teams themselves would feel ashamed from such conspiracies. Both of these teams know they haven't done a 100% job and would be happy to focus on building better cars.

[wesley123]

but as Ferrari fan but I never supported favoritism in F1

Lol

Anyways, for your 'favoritism' argument;
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... u6YAc.html

[Big Tea]

but as Ferrari fan but I never supported favoritism in F1

Lol

Anyways, for your 'favoritism' argument;
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... u6YAc.html

Yeh, but he is looking for a seat at Mercedes, he would say that wouldn't he (sorry, I did try but I could not help it )

[mafeotul]

On every team thread, there are a few posters (not many, just one or two) who have this insane, illogical thought process that, somehow things have been done to help Mercedes, by FIA and Pirelli. While here the talk is about how Pirelli helped Mercedes and the talk on Red Bull team thread is about how the simplified front wing was brought to damage Red Bull. On Mercedes team thread, there are a few who constantly peddle the conspiracy theory of how Mercedes is favoring Lewis and undermining the other guy. No one wants to believe that Mercedes has been doing a better job of building cars that works well on any given regulations since 2014 and they are driving the team better than anyone else.

No matter how logical you want to argue, these guys aren't going to believe, because their thought process is like the substance that keeps them happy. Red Bull and Ferrari teams themselves would feel ashamed from such conspiracies. Both of these teams know they haven't done a 100% job and would be happy to focus on building better cars.

Cannot agree more,

On every platform of conversation, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, here and on every forum, you find the same inane arguments. Devoid of all logic, devoid of reason, spat out by people whom have little to no experience with F1 and its history. I have lost hours arguing with such people, until i am now completely disgusted with such individuals. The Valtteri is second man arguments, the FIA loves Mercedes, Pirelli loves Mercedes, stewards love Mercedes, GOD loves Mercedes etc. Everything else is a conspiracy, everyone is secretly sabotaging every team, the FIA wants all teams to do bad appart from Mercedes.

It is appalling, and i am shocked fans are so self obsessed with their teams as to not see the utter incompetence displayed by Ferrari and RedBull for many years, some with nearly the same amount of money, some with more.

[e30ernest]

On every team thread, there are a few posters (not many, just one or two) who have this insane, illogical thought process that, somehow things have been done to help Mercedes, by FIA and Pirelli. While here the talk is about how Pirelli helped Mercedes and the talk on Red Bull team thread is about how the simplified front wing was brought to damage Red Bull. On Mercedes team thread, there are a few who constantly peddle the conspiracy theory of how Mercedes is favoring Lewis and undermining the other guy. No one wants to believe that Mercedes has been doing a better job of building cars that works well on any given regulations since 2014 and they are driving the team better than anyone else.

No matter how logical you want to argue, these guys aren't going to believe, because their thought process is like the substance that keeps them happy. Red Bull and Ferrari teams themselves would feel ashamed from such conspiracies. Both of these teams know they haven't done a 100% job and would be happy to focus on building better cars.

Cannot agree more,

On every platform of conversation, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, here and on every forum, you find the same inane arguments. Devoid of all logic, devoid of reason, spat out by people whom have little to no experience with F1 and its history. I have lost hours arguing with such people, until i am now completely disgusted with such individuals. The Valtteri is second man arguments, the FIA loves Mercedes, Pirelli loves Mercedes, stewards love Mercedes, GOD loves Mercedes etc. Everything else is a conspiracy, everyone is secretly sabotaging every team, the FIA wants all teams to do bad appart from Mercedes.

It is appalling, and i am shocked fans are so self obsessed with their teams as to not see the utter incompetence displayed by Ferrari and RedBull for many years, some with nearly the same amount of money, some with more.

It's "Proportionality bias". Mercedes has had an amazing string of seasons and so there must be something amazing happening behind the scenes to let that happen. Because there is no way my favorite team would be this far behind for these number of seasons if Mercedes was playing fair. Then enters confirmation bias when Bottas doesn't get penalized for his start, or Lewis doesn't get penalized for x action.

It's the same concept on how people believe in a flat earth among other things.

Unfortunately, it is hard to get through to people who hold such beliefs. Any evidence you present will only make them dig deeper into their belief that there is some conspiracy to make Mercedes rule F1. If only people thought about the simplest reasons first, such as, maybe Ferrari simply got it wrong? Or maybe the mistakes made by Ferrari in 2017/18 cost them titles that would have been within their reach? Maybe Mercedes is simply operating at a higher level than everyone else on the grid at the moment?

[Jolle]

If you keep blaming others, you’re never going to improve