Aerodynamicist or Engine Designer?

[newabb]

Hi all,

I want to take a postgraduate study of motorsport in university around UK.

What is your kindly advice about choosing between both of the following programs: aerodynamics or engine design?

Also what university is best on above two programs?

Thanks

[ISLAMATRON]

internal combustion engines seem to be on their way out... soon enough

Road Cars should have been flying by now, at least according to the cartoons I used to watch when I was a kid... should be lot of aerodynamics invovled in that.

I studied mech engineering so I'm partial to engines but that doesnt seem to be the wave of the future.

[Giblet]

I typed a huge message then the last sentence was the only one that went through.

WTF?

[Giblet]

To summarize my unseen rant.

I disagree with ISLAMATRON as gas will be the fuel of choice for the majority of motorsports for the near and far future.

Motorsports is one of the one areas in life where extreme limits are the norm. The same reason that jet fighters are extremely loud and burn a lot of really expensive fuel is to get the performance.

There will be new electric formula I'm sure, but racing cars will burn gas until something comes along that is safer and has more power per pound

Even F1, the top of the motorsport pyramid, the near future is ICE, and the far future is lower reving more effecient ICEs, talented and smart engineers in the engine department are needed.

As far as aero, it is always developing, but fluid dynamics is more about ideas permutated through supercomputing.

Aero has become more of a science with gigaflop computing. I look at it like a mathematician vs a person who makes a math program.

[ISLAMATRON]

As a mechanical engineer who specialized in automotive powerplants I wish I could agree with you Giblet... but there are alot in my field out of work at the moment, and that includes F1 as well. F1 engines have been frozen and they were pretty much have been for quite some time, even during the end of the V-10's... the V-8's engines are just the V-10's with 2 cylenders lopped off. The next engine formula they are talking about is basically a WRC engine taken to a further extreme and that very well might be the last engine Formula F1 ever has.

Yes gas may be used for quite some time but the time of the ICE is quickly running out. Even in Motorsports.

[Giblet]

Knowing how to design something doesn't give you a crystal ball into the future.

If newabb was a very talented engineer, and came up with an ICE that ran on hydrogen, was quiet, and only spat out water, would that mean that the ICE was still running out?

I just don't think you are being realistic.

newabb asked about motorsports, not just F1, and most if not all other classes and forms of motorsport still develop their engines _constantly_.

Prototypes, and racing planes are two prime examples of this.

Look at the diesel LeMans Audi, do you think that _talented_ engineers were out of work for that project?

There is lots of work for ICE's in motorsports for now and for a while. At least enough time to get a degree, a job, and the chance to make a big change or development somewhere in motorsport.

[ISLAMATRON]

The diesel LeMans Audi has been cut back to 2 races this year... and so yes some of those designers are currently out of work. Do you have any other better exmaples of what I am saying?

And that hydrogen burning ICE has already been exhibited by BMW and it is not nearly as efficient as an electric motor powered by a hydrogen fuel cell.

[Giblet]

So tell me what is going to replace it outside of F1s limited KERS?

Battery powered cars with all low end torque and nothing up high?

I don't need to give you examples of reasons that the ICE will remain a long time in many kinds of racing. It survives now and will for a long time.

You need to offer an alternative to that has better performance than an ICE for a racing application.

Its MOTOR racing. It's about the motor. I don't care if batteries or whatever are the way of the future. I need to hear pistons pumping like I need to hear ice being shredded as I watch Hockey.

All kinds of people are out of work, in all kinds of fields in motor racing, but the truly talented engineers are in demand. Many people have passed the course, but like anything, the cream of the crop get to continue doing what they love, which is engineering what they want to.

Neither of know what is going to happen in the future, so we can agree to disagree.
From your previous history on this board, I was concerened that you would go off and be nitpicky and you have proved me right

VROOM VROOM VROOM.

vs.

whiiiiiiiiir.

Vroom please.

[bettonracing]

On one side the trend is to use ICE's to recharge batteries (electric motors are more efficient), but I suspect silent race cars won't be the norm within any of our lifetimes. The inability for spectators to perceive whether the car is accelerating or slowing down promotes the continued use of ICE's. Even the relatively silent LMP diesels still emit some noise. That perception is half the show.

Given ICE's ~30% energy efficiency and the continuing development of "super-materials" I'd say there's still some work ahead in ICE's (think ceramic engines). Conversely, these same "super-materials" may contribute to a new wave of aerodynamics (think pressure-responsive materials).

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton

[safeaschuck]

I wouldn't get into engine design if i were you, it is a VERY tough market to design and sell an engine in motorsport at the moment and I don't think it's going to get any better.
Independant companies have a bunch of designs out there with very impressive specs that just aren't gettting picked up.
You don't see many postions advertised for manufacturers either so I guess they promote from within mainly, or head hunt established designers, either way they will have more employees than they have work for at the moment.
Although I dont know much about the aero world I would imagine it is in the same state, with many talented people already available due to the new caps on wind tunnel use and simplification of bodywork.

How about Tribology? It is in its infancy but it is a grower I believe, and would apply to areas of motorsport engine design, also in other places such as gearbox, bearing and shock absorber design.
Should motorsport be stuck in a lengthy downturn it can be applied to other disciplines too.

Try and get hold of a copy of race engine technology, it might help to give you a feel for the industry, and I'm guessing there is an equivalent mag for aero? anyone?

[Giblet]

http://www.business-magazines.com/produ ... prd=109373

I think this might be that.

[kilcoo316]

Hi all,

I want to take a postgraduate study of motorsport in university around UK.

What is your kindly advice about choosing between both of the following programs: aerodynamics or engine design?

Also what university is best on above two programs?

Thanks

What is your degree in?


I would advise not to specialise in motorsport - then you are much more employable by being suitable for a much much wider field.

[Conceptual]

Today's F1 is more of a Theatrical Class of motorsport than a pinnacle formula.

I think that doing BOTH aero/engine grad work will cover all of your possibilities, and possible over-qualify you for any and every job that you may apply for after you graduate.

If you want to get into F1, I suggest getting your doctorate in Drama. That seems to be the wave of the future of this sport.

[donskar]

Today's F1 is more of a Theatrical Class of motorsport than a pinnacle formula.

I think that doing BOTH aero/engine grad work will cover all of your possibilities, and possible over-qualify you for any and every job that you may apply for after you graduate.

If you want to get into F1, I suggest getting your doctorate in Drama. That seems to be the wave of the future of this sport.

Good one, Conceptual =D>

SLIGHTLY more seriously, combining a solid technical degree with another in business or - especially - marketing would make one an interesting candidate. Being able to design some parts of hte car, THEN describe the car in layman's terms and "sell" it to prospective sponsors would be a desitrale package of skills. Does Sam Michaels of Williams come anywhere this description? Seems he has been the public mouthpiece for the team for some time now, combining PR and technical roles.

[PlatinumZealot]

Just do mechanical engineering... you can learn any area you wish afterward. You don't have to limit yourself to an engine, and engine is just a single machine out of thousands.