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Yeah, I see it now! It's from a Spanish media. Maybe not 100% accurate, but it gives an idea of the pace
probably not, but Albon would not have caught Ricci on the same compound either. He couldn't in the first stint. So they tried to attack on softer compound and hoped he could make the overtake and stay in front (or that a late SC allowed another pitstop).
Yes, he wouldn't have caught Ricci, but he wouldn't have abused his tyres fighting him either. I suspect they were hoping for a late SC, I guess they had nothing to lose, but I still think it was not a wise choice.Sieper wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 14:28probably not, but Albon would not have caught Ricci on the same compound either. He couldn't in the first stint. So they tried to attack on softer compound and hoped he could make the overtake and stay in front (or that a late SC allowed another pitstop).
The tried to think offensive, maybe Renault pace caught them out?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... n=widget-1
Red Bull motorsport advisor Helmut Marko thinks his team and Honda are set to gain from Formula 1's 'party mode' ban.
From this weekend's Italian Grand Prix, F1 teams will no longer be allowed to run special engine modes in qualifying that help deliver them a single-lap power boost.
Instead, teams will be forced to run pretty much the same modes in qualifying and the races.
While it is widely accepted that Mercedes has the most power available in qualifying – with estimates putting its advantage over Honda and Renault at around 28hp – there is some scepticism about the changes slowing the team enough to stop it locking out the front of the grid.
There are even some suggestions that the change in engine useage will instead allow Mercedes to run with more power in the races, so it will now just stretch the advantage it has over rivals on Sunday.
Marko sees things differently, though, and reckons the changes will allow Red Bull to get closer and stop Mercedes having a big edge in important phases of the race.
"That Mercedes can drive longer with a strong mode may well be the case", Marko told Motorsport.com in an exclusive interview.
"But as we see it, the blatant superiority in qualifying will no longer be there. This also applies to the in and out laps around the pitstops in the race.
"[Valtteri] Bottas suggests that there will be less overtaking, but that means they've been going at full throttle on every overtaking manoeuvre so far.
"We believe that this will bring us closer. And if everything goes well, our race pace was pretty good anyway."
While some do not believe the lack of a party mode will change the order on Saturday, Marko is in no doubt about the advantage that Mercedes will lose.
"If you look at Q1 and Q2, we are relatively equal," he said about the battle between Mercedes and Red Bull-Honda.
"Only in Q3 it suddenly goes bang. That means the difference between the modes is significant. But it's hard to say exactly how much that is".
Marko also reckons that the change could hinder rival Renault too, whose qualifying engine mode has put it on a par with Honda this year.
"Renault has a relatively good qualifying mode," he explained. "But in the race they are weaker than us.
"In qualifying Renault is at our level or slightly above it. In the race we are clearly number two in terms of engine power behind Mercedes."
Marko says that one factor that has not been considered about Mercedes having access to more power in the race now is that running that way could push them over the limit in terms of fuel consumption.
"[We are] positive that the new technical directive brings us closer," he added. "After all, it's not just that they can drive in a stronger mode for so long now. Fuel consumption also plays a role.
"The consumption is limited. If you drive too long in a too strong mode, you need too much fuel. There are several factors.
"We didn't have a race this year where fuel consumption was critical for us. Of course we have lift and coast again and again, but that was not decisive for race performance.
"It's difficult to judge how we compare with Mercedes [in terms of fuel consumption]. But logically, the more power, the more fuel consumption."
https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... er-at-spa/Mercedes purposely slower at Spa by 0.6, 0.7 tenths
Date published: September 3 2020
Mercedes has already prepared for life with a less powerful power unit at Monza by running a reported six to seven tenths a lap down at the Belgian Grand Prix.
The Italian Grand Prix marks the end of ‘party mode’ as a new Technical Directive [TD/037-20] comes into effect at the ‘Temple of Speed’.
The directive limits the usage of engine modes, requiring teams to run the same ICE mode in qualifying and the race.
That means the full might of the Mercedes engine will not be able to be unleashed, but it appears the dominant Silver Arrows, who cruised to another race win in Belgium, used Spa as somewhat of a dummy run for Monza.
“Only when Verstappen caught up to one and a half seconds on Valtteri on the 25th lap did we tell our guys [Hamilton and Bottas] that they could forget about tyre management for a few laps and get a little bit of a head start,” Mercedes chief race engineer Andrew Shovlin is quoted by Auto Motor und Sport.
“If you take more today, you will harm yourself tomorrow.
“We already had the races from Monza in mind and wanted to bring the engines as fresh as possible into the new era. Every hot lap would have cost us more later.”
The report states that the Mercedes duo were six to seven tenths a lap slower than they could have been during the race and suggests the 0.526s gap between Hamilton and Max Verstappen for pole position could have been larger.
Austria - 0.538mem wrote: ↑02 Sep 2020, 14:29for the people that love arguing for the sake of argue.
every body noticed the drop in power in mercs in SPA except you
as i said , in previous qualy we had monsters gaps more than a full second even in Spain with strat 3 the gap was 8 tenths while in SPA with strat 2 it was 5 tenths only.
End of lap 15, Verstappen is 2.426 behind. End of lap 25, he's 5.294 seconds behind. That's nearly 2.9 seconds (2.868), not 2.5 as you claim. Do you mean end of lap of lap 24?mem wrote: ↑02 Sep 2020, 14:29in the race from lap 15 safety car ending to lap 25 Max lost only 2.5 seconds to Hamilton thats 10 laps while kept his car in Bottas mirrors so he kept the pace with the 2 mercs , when his tyres starts to fail him, started to vibrate (as mentioned before RBR aero and chassis department lack 100 employees to mercs) and he opted to start save his tyres or else he would definitely needed another pit to change tyres remember Bottas engineer telling him it will be long stint.
Verstappen was more than 8/10ths clear at the end of lap 1 and pulled that gap consistently until lap 9. How much of that 6.661 seconds did he lose fighting Riccardo? You say that the whole gap was due to his fight?
No. But listening to what the drivers and engineers say and applying basic common sense it's normally fairly easy to work out. It won't be right all the time but it's a useful yardstick.
Depressing!!!!Wouter wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 15:27I wonder if Helmut Marko knows this .........
https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... er-at-spa/Mercedes purposely slower at Spa by 0.6, 0.7 tenths
Date published: September 3 2020
Mercedes has already prepared for life with a less powerful power unit at Monza by running a reported six to seven tenths a lap down at the Belgian Grand Prix.
The Italian Grand Prix marks the end of ‘party mode’ as a new Technical Directive [TD/037-20] comes into effect at the ‘Temple of Speed’.
The directive limits the usage of engine modes, requiring teams to run the same ICE mode in qualifying and the race.
That means the full might of the Mercedes engine will not be able to be unleashed, but it appears the dominant Silver Arrows, who cruised to another race win in Belgium, used Spa as somewhat of a dummy run for Monza.
“Only when Verstappen caught up to one and a half seconds on Valtteri on the 25th lap did we tell our guys [Hamilton and Bottas] that they could forget about tyre management for a few laps and get a little bit of a head start,” Mercedes chief race engineer Andrew Shovlin is quoted by Auto Motor und Sport.
“If you take more today, you will harm yourself tomorrow.
“We already had the races from Monza in mind and wanted to bring the engines as fresh as possible into the new era. Every hot lap would have cost us more later.”
The report states that the Mercedes duo were six to seven tenths a lap slower than they could have been during the race and suggests the 0.526s gap between Hamilton and Max Verstappen for pole position could have been larger.
Original article in German: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... a-gespart/
I guess this contradicts those that think that Mercedes is going “all out” for most of the race... As has been said several times, they go as slow as they possibly can to win the race and preserve the car.Wouter wrote:I wonder if Helmut Marko knows this .........
https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... er-at-spa/Mercedes purposely slower at Spa by 0.6, 0.7 tenths
Date published: September 3 2020
Mercedes has already prepared for life with a less powerful power unit at Monza by running a reported six to seven tenths a lap down at the Belgian Grand Prix.
The Italian Grand Prix marks the end of ‘party mode’ as a new Technical Directive [TD/037-20] comes into effect at the ‘Temple of Speed’.
The directive limits the usage of engine modes, requiring teams to run the same ICE mode in qualifying and the race.
That means the full might of the Mercedes engine will not be able to be unleashed, but it appears the dominant Silver Arrows, who cruised to another race win in Belgium, used Spa as somewhat of a dummy run for Monza.
“Only when Verstappen caught up to one and a half seconds on Valtteri on the 25th lap did we tell our guys [Hamilton and Bottas] that they could forget about tyre management for a few laps and get a little bit of a head start,” Mercedes chief race engineer Andrew Shovlin is quoted by Auto Motor und Sport.
“If you take more today, you will harm yourself tomorrow.
“We already had the races from Monza in mind and wanted to bring the engines as fresh as possible into the new era. Every hot lap would have cost us more later.”
The report states that the Mercedes duo were six to seven tenths a lap slower than they could have been during the race and suggests the 0.526s gap between Hamilton and Max Verstappen for pole position could have been larger.
Original article in German: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... a-gespart/
The Qualy only mode ban wasn’t intended to change the pecking order, there is no reason for the FIA to intervene if the order doesn’t change.maguetox wrote:Depressing!!!!Wouter wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 15:27I wonder if Helmut Marko knows this .........
https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... er-at-spa/Mercedes purposely slower at Spa by 0.6, 0.7 tenths
Date published: September 3 2020
Mercedes has already prepared for life with a less powerful power unit at Monza by running a reported six to seven tenths a lap down at the Belgian Grand Prix.
The Italian Grand Prix marks the end of ‘party mode’ as a new Technical Directive [TD/037-20] comes into effect at the ‘Temple of Speed’.
The directive limits the usage of engine modes, requiring teams to run the same ICE mode in qualifying and the race.
That means the full might of the Mercedes engine will not be able to be unleashed, but it appears the dominant Silver Arrows, who cruised to another race win in Belgium, used Spa as somewhat of a dummy run for Monza.
“Only when Verstappen caught up to one and a half seconds on Valtteri on the 25th lap did we tell our guys [Hamilton and Bottas] that they could forget about tyre management for a few laps and get a little bit of a head start,” Mercedes chief race engineer Andrew Shovlin is quoted by Auto Motor und Sport.
“If you take more today, you will harm yourself tomorrow.
“We already had the races from Monza in mind and wanted to bring the engines as fresh as possible into the new era. Every hot lap would have cost us more later.”
The report states that the Mercedes duo were six to seven tenths a lap slower than they could have been during the race and suggests the 0.526s gap between Hamilton and Max Verstappen for pole position could have been larger.
Original article in German: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... a-gespart/
I think the FIA will need to allow one PU upgrade or change of specification during the season, if not, the peek order is not going to change.