[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[mem]

So what do folks say now. Car isnt that great and neither is the engine. Pole was so close wasnt it guys.

I think the main problem is the car. It's quite visible after FP1....They need alot more wing to keep the car on the track...Anyway Mercs are light yeras ahead...engine and chassis wise...

are you saying they could put a smaller rear wing ?
i mean during qualifying to gain time but they feared a crash for unbalance ?

[mem]

how many times Albon made the same mistake going off limit and delete his time during practice and qualifications ?
i never saw someone don't have the ability to improve his driving style and correct his errors like him. Alex don't deserve the RBR seat.

[Moore77]

In fact my opinion is that honda will be almost same with what we see today and others will not. But as I said we need to see tomorrow race.

But engine modes are not allowed to change from the startof quali to the end of the race. They for sure did experiment during practises.

Mode will not change but what has that mode inside? How it works?
I think fia had to mandate to teams to run completely same settings at race a couple of laps back to back.
Or Q3 can be harder compound with same kg of fuel 4-5 laps and pole by average of them.

Are you asking this rule only for Mercedes or for everyone else too? Because any rule change, every team has to conform. What is the guarantee that Honda, just like today, wouldn't get caught out even more with the new rules that you are suggesting?

[zibby43]

In fact my opinion is that honda will be almost same with what we see today and others will not. But as I said we need to see tomorrow race.

But engine modes are not allowed to change from the startof quali to the end of the race. They for sure did experiment during practises.

Mode will not change but what has that mode inside? How it works?
I think fia had to mandate to teams to run completely same settings at race a couple of laps back to back.

Apologies in advance if I’m not understanding your question, but which part of the TD are you referring to?

The same mode used in qualifying is the same mode used in the race.

ICE parameters can also change within a lap, but the same pattern has to be repeated on every single lap.

Different modes can be used for in and out laps in qualifying, and any lap that is 20% slower than pole. In the race, the laps to the grid, the lap after the checkered flag, and any laps run under safety car or virtual safety car conditions are also excluded.

The mode chosen can vary between events (from race to race).

[HPD]

Before they keep blaming Honda. People should learn to read.

"We've been strugglekend," says Verstappen at Sky Sports. 'We've tried everything. We adjusted the wing to what should work for Monza, but lap times didn't get any better. It shows that our car is not yet what it should be in terms of downforce. We have trouble with balance and grip.

It's just not a good weekend for us', Verstappen kicks off at Ziggo Sport.
The RB16's balance is still not good enough to compete with the dominant Merceds. "You notice that when you drive with less downforce, then that car is a lot more sensitive, and that just eats us up now," says the Red Bull driver, who expects to fight for P3.

[Sayeman]

Such a sad day for formula 1. Can't believe I woke up to watch this rubbish.

[Wouter]

Max: It's just not a good weekend for us. I've tried everything. Less and more downforce, overturned the whole car and tried everything with Alex. It's just not the way I would like it to be, but it is what it is. "

"He [Albon] gave me a tow and I gave him a tow, but every time the same lap time came up. If we start driving with less downforce, the car is still very sensitive. Especially in the middle sector the car is very difficult to handle. "It's just not possible to keep the car under control on fast tracks. We're just still struggling too much, A lot of things to do research for the team, but none of it should be an excuse."

"I come here to win, but I don't see that happening. It won't interest me, it's just a shame", he told Ziggo Sport. "We just didn't have a good time, but we can fight for P3, but like I said, that's not what I want."

[mem]

Before they keep blaming Honda. People should learn to read.

"We've been strugglekend," says Verstappen at Sky Sports. 'We've tried everything. We adjusted the wing to what should work for Monza, but lap times didn't get any better. It shows that our car is not yet what it should be in terms of downforce. We have trouble with balance and grip.

It's just not a good weekend for us', Verstappen kicks off at Ziggo Sport.
The RB16's balance is still not good enough to compete with the dominant Merceds. "You notice that when you drive with less downforce, then that car is a lot more sensitive, and that just eats us up now," says the Red Bull driver, who expects to fight for P3.

like i said the aero and chassis department need shake up and more employees hired smartly
this formula of bosses Adrian Newey , Rob marshal , Dan fallows , Pierre Wache are not working properly and efficiency
the car doesn't deliver the needed results regarding how much resources spent on it , where is the flaws ? infront of your eyes in the bosses and how they function administratively and on car.
you solve this problem you solve 99% of your car setbacks.

[etusch]

But engine modes are not allowed to change from the startof quali to the end of the race. They for sure did experiment during practises.

Mode will not change but what has that mode inside? How it works?
I think fia had to mandate to teams to run completely same settings at race a couple of laps back to back.
Or Q3 can be harder compound with same kg of fuel 4-5 laps and pole by average of them.

Are you asking this rule only for Mercedes or for everyone else too? Because any rule change, every team has to conform. What is the guarantee that Honda, just like today, wouldn't get caught out even more with the new rules that you are suggesting?

Of course rules will be same for everyone as they are now. What I suggested will not prevent merc to take pole but force everybody to use a real race mode.
I don't trust Fia then I don't trust merc and Ferrari. But my rule idea is Fia's job, so you can see that I am aiming fia. They are really bad about administrating F1.

[GhostF1]

Honda are not a problem, Alpha Tauri are looking as strong as they have been, Honda has always had at least the second best race mode and if anything it's improved now there is no need for a quali mode... The RB16 just does not work in low downforce scenarios where the AT01 seems to flourish in them. Car is far too twitchy, the fundamental issues with it haven't been sorted obviously, almost as if the minor improvements over the last few races were masked by bringing bits to increase downforce.

[ispano6]

Honda are not a problem, Alpha Tauri are looking as strong as they have been, Honda has always had at least the second best race mode and if anything it's improved now there is no need for a quali mode... The RB16 just does not work in low downforce scenarios where the AT01 seems to flourish in them. Car is far too twitchy, the fundamental issues with it haven't been sorted obviously, almost as if the minor improvements over the last few races were masked by bringing bits to increase downforce.

Those few tenths come from driver confidence and it's just not there for them with low fuel and low df. Monza hasn't been a track suited for RedBull in one lap pace but race pace and tire life is where Honda have more confidence in Red Bull's suspension set up. It would be interesting to see what Max could do in the AT01

[gshevlin]

As a general rule, cars with higher downforce will generate slightly more drag. Poorly designed cars, of course (cough! Williams FW42) have poor downforce with high drag. Low-downforce car concepts have limited ability to increase downforce. The 2015 Williams was a low-drag car, which compromised in wet conditions and at high-downforce tracks like Monaco.
My guess is that the Alpha Tauri AT01 has less downforce than the Red Bull car, but that in turn means that it has less drag on high-speed circuits, hence it has a higher top speed.
The other wild card is the higher rake of the Red Bull,which,according to some aero commentators, means that it will always have higher drag.
The Red Bull aero concept for a number of years has been based on higher downforce and they accepted the higher drag. In the "golden" Renault years, the Red Bulls were nowhere on the speed trap, but Sebastian Vettel would initially charge off up the road at the start of a race to ensure that nobody else got within DRS range, then he would cruise and collect.
I suspect that Monza may have been the worst track for Red Bull this season. A perfect storm of low downforce, sub-optimal gearing, and engine mode restrictions. But no car is anywhere near the Mercedes right now, which means that only one team is likely to win races. This is now a worse competitive season, far worse than last season.

[Revs84]

This pretty much sums it all. Verstappen isn't one to mince his words.

Verstappen said that he “tried everything” with the set-up on his car to try and find more pace, but found he was setting similar times regardless of what tweaks were made.

“I tried everything, very low, medium-low, and a little bit more [downforce],” Verstappen said.

“I ended up doing the same lap time all of the time, so it just shows that our car is not good enough at the moment.

“Around here, we know top speed-wise, we are down on power to Mercedes especially, and that’s a given, but that is not the deficit we have to them at the moment.

“It’s not that big, the deficit in power. From our side, we just didn’t have a good balance in the car, but not only that, but we’re also lacking grip.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... za/4869167

[1158]

I'll be curious to see if the trend we saw earlier in the season where RB was not far from the mid-field in Q and then they suddenly pick up pace in the race happens again. Before anyone says fixed PU modes, I remember the chassis instability being mentioned as the problem by RB. Hungary comes to mind. It seemed like when they put fuel in the car it would pick up pace compared to the midfield.

[godlameroso]

From the long runs RB is much faster than midfield