[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[KelsO]

How about Max alongside Alonso @ Renault

it's not funny

[etusch]

These are bullshit. where he will go? It is "more power" thing? Ok go Williams. they have most powerful engine. If it is successful team then he has best he can have, and most promising

You know, My immediate thought was Max is going nowhere, it's Merc or Red Bull, but then I had one of those 'what if' moments.

As it stands, Max is on 110 points, 47 ahead of his team mate, who is just 2 points in front of Stroll at RP.
(He could easily have 20 odd more had things not gone wrong)

Where would Max be if he was at RP, and what would Red Bull have had Max not been the No1 driver?


More to the point, where would he be if RP had already morphed into AM and had the backing and finances to develop more quickly, and attract the required people? Ahead of Red Bull without Max?

Maybe my initial thought of 'there is no where but RedBull' is not so sharp after all?
What you think?

These kind of things have too many sides human can not calculate.
Where Redbull would be? If max were at Racing Point who would be in Redbull with Albon? Stroll or Perez? Now assume that we have ability to restart season by ability of Verstappen perez swap if they choose to.. would Verstappen choose RP?

[etusch]

How about Max alongside Alonso @ Renault

3d world war

[etusch]

Yet, in quite a few cases they were very much at Alex's heels and even in front. And since I rate Max very highly, I wouldn't be surprised if he would be able to have the same pace in the RP20 as he has in the RB16.

Verstappen has 3 dnf and in all other races he was at podium and one of them top of podium which is impossible for RP. It is not a clever thing to say that Albon shows redbull car's level and perez and stroll shows RP car's level lower then it's real level.
First of all Strol and his father's relation with toto let them buy parts and models from mercedes illegaly. This is accepted by fia but they declared mercedes clean before finding RP guilty. Whatever.
Rp car is mature 2019 mercedes. It is easy to drive. so Albon can be better with that car and verstappen even better with that car but just better than Albon with a smaller margin we saw in redbull. Everybody knows redbull's drivability issues and every step forward they take we see that Albon gets better.
Let's bring Gasly too into consideration. He was struggling with redbull, he was lapped by his team mate with same car. Now he is shining basically same car's mature version. I am sure he also will strugle with this redbull again. I am sure Albon would look better with AT.
I don't know how you can say that but it is something everybody sure about; redbull is second best car on the grid. That is it.

[Sieper]

For me it is very clear. Yes we struggle now, suddenly even very much. But Max Honda an RBR need to stay together. Just keep working and progressing. Mercedes will not stat where they are now if/when the team is sold off.

[Wass85]

If I were Max I'd be doing my utmost to join Merc alongside Hamilton, the only way to get a foothold there is to oust him.

Surely Mercedes will still be favourites when the new regulations come in. If that's not possible then he just as to pray that Red Bull can fight for the titles at some point.

[Big Tea]

If I were Max I'd be doing my utmost to join Merc alongside Hamilton, the only way to get a foothold there is to oust him.

Surely Mercedes will still be favourites when the new regulations come in. If that's not possible then he just as to pray that Red Bull can fight for the titles at some point.

That is not going to happen. As long as Hamilton is at Merc, neither Max, nor Leclerc or anyone who wants to be team leader or disrupt the way things are is going to be brought in.

As the saying goes, if it is not broken, don't fix it.

[Wass85]

If I were Max I'd be doing my utmost to join Merc alongside Hamilton, the only way to get a foothold there is to oust him.

Surely Mercedes will still be favourites when the new regulations come in. If that's not possible then he just as to pray that Red Bull can fight for the titles at some point.

That is not going to happen. As long as Hamilton is at Merc, neither Max, nor Leclerc or anyone who wants to be team leader or disrupt the way things are is going to be brought in.

As the saying goes, if it is not broken, don't fix it.

Yep highly unlikely but that wouldn't stop me from asking if I were him.

After last season I really believed Red Bull would be closer this year but they've dropped back, Max is saving their faces with his performances.

[Jaisonas]

How about Max alongside Alonso @ Renault

Mmm yes Max in the team he threw most --- at

[Sieper]

The other way around.

[TNTHead]

More to the point, where would he be if RP had already morphed into AM and had the backing and finances to develop more quickly, and attract the required people? Ahead of Red Bull without Max?

Maybe my initial thought of 'there is no where but RedBull' is not so sharp after all?
What you think?

As the major teams are preparing for more or less level brother/sister team (Merc/AM, RB/AT) and budget cap works as intended, performance differences should be smaller after 2022/2023. As your initial 2022 car can be developed with unlimited funds, performance differences will be obtained by the design team with roughly the highest combination of engineering skill and funds. That is not Ferrari and probably not Renault. That leaves Merc/AM, RB/AT and McLaren. Personel wise I think we should not underestimate McL because of Seidl and Key. It is a bit of a crystal ball estimation but Merc/AM is probably ahead to RB/AT because engine but also funds (and may be also personnel).

Bit pessimistic but unless Honda keep their sharp development curve I think the RB/Honda camp wont come on top performance wise for the next few years. So I expect not much to be changed after new set of regulations, only McL back as a top team, and AM and AT closer by. Great unkown will be the Ferrari teams, can they close the gap with their engine?

From the point of view of Max I think he should get a good understanding where the money is flowing to next years and jump there where best engineers + money is. This may not be Merc when sold. Lets not forget the influence of Lauda there who passed away.

Just my two cents.

[diffuser]

They can make all the changes they want for the engine next year, what they can't do is develop in season. So all the steps they would have introduced this year will have no track validation, only dyno validation. Fuel also can be changed, all things can be changed for next season so expect a half second step on the engine side alone. Where manufacturers typically gain ~.2 over the season then again .2 over the winter, instead the developments will be consolidated. One can only hope Mercedes doesn't have a similar step over the winter as they've had this year.

The engine is less than 3 tenths down as is, the rest of the gap comes from the chassis. Next year the chassis will need to compensate for the aero parts it is losing after this year. I'm guessing we return to 2019 levels of performance next year, hopefully not similar gaps.

I don't buy that .2 a lap a season. I think it's alot less than that and everything hings on the chassis being to apply that extra power. Think it's closer to .05. but the I'm just pulling numbers out of my a$$.

If one adds more DF every year that also equates into being able to use more of the existing HP. Also more DF helps at lower speeds where it's easier to make uptime. More HP is gonna have demising returns a higher speeds.

[diffuser]

They can make all the changes they want for the engine next year, what they can't do is develop in season. So all the steps they would have introduced this year will have no track validation, only dyno validation. Fuel also can be changed, all things can be changed for next season so expect a half second step on the engine side alone. Where manufacturers typically gain ~.2 over the season then again .2 over the winter, instead the developments will be consolidated. One can only hope Mercedes doesn't have a similar step over the winter as they've had this year.

The engine is less than 3 tenths down as is, the rest of the gap comes from the chassis. Next year the chassis will need to compensate for the aero parts it is losing after this year. I'm guessing we return to 2019 levels of performance next year, hopefully not similar gaps.

I don't buy that .2 a lap a season. I think it's alot less than that and everything hings on the chassis being able to apply that extra power. Think it's closer to .05 but I'm just pulling the numbers out of my a$$.

If one adds more DF every year that also equates into being able to use more of the existing HP. Also more DF helps at lower speeds where it's easier to make uptime. More HP is gonna have deminishing returns a higher speeds. Without more DF you can't get on the throttle any earlier.
Look at McLaren, Renault. They both using the same PU as last year and look how much faster they are over last year.

[diffuser]

If I were Max I'd be doing my utmost to join Merc alongside Hamilton, the only way to get a foothold there is to oust him.

Surely Mercedes will still be favourites when the new regulations come in. If that's not possible then he just as to pray that Red Bull can fight for the titles at some point.

That is not going to happen. As long as Hamilton is at Merc, neither Max, nor Leclerc or anyone who wants to be team leader or disrupt the way things are is going to be brought in.

As the saying goes, if it is not broken, don't fix it.

If I was Max, I'd stay at RBR till end of 2022. Merc don't need him and alot of rumors about where they'll be in 2022. By the middle of 2022 you'll know who's gotten the new regs right. RBR have probably got a better chance than most at getting them right. You just don't know these days. Alot of fresh money in F1 [RP & Williams] now and some of them will probably start moving a majority of their resources to 2022 soon.

[godlameroso]

They can make all the changes they want for the engine next year, what they can't do is develop in season. So all the steps they would have introduced this year will have no track validation, only dyno validation. Fuel also can be changed, all things can be changed for next season so expect a half second step on the engine side alone. Where manufacturers typically gain ~.2 over the season then again .2 over the winter, instead the developments will be consolidated. One can only hope Mercedes doesn't have a similar step over the winter as they've had this year.

The engine is less than 3 tenths down as is, the rest of the gap comes from the chassis. Next year the chassis will need to compensate for the aero parts it is losing after this year. I'm guessing we return to 2019 levels of performance next year, hopefully not similar gaps.

I don't buy that .2 a lap a season. I think it's alot less than that and everything hings on the chassis being to apply that extra power. Think it's closer to .05. but the I'm just pulling numbers out of my a$$.

If one adds more DF every year that also equates into being able to use more of the existing HP. Also more DF helps at lower speeds where it's easier to make uptime. More HP is gonna have demising returns a higher speeds.

They're going to lose downforce next year. Likely be at 2019 levels which was lower than it was in 2018. But they will have 2019 Ferrari levels of power.