2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[mwillems]

Besides that, petrol heads do, and always will love the roar of engines

Steam enthusiasts also love the roar of steam locomotives, and the theatre of plumes of steam and venting this and that and so forth. {I just think they're neat! }

Younger people increasingly prefer EVs, especially those under the age of 15, and it would be remiss for F1 or performance car manufacturers to only cater to an older audience (sadly), as much as V12s are a joy.

So when is the range of McLaren EVs coming out?

I remember this conversation in last years off season

I don't know if they have changed their minds but quotes from Mclaren were saying that it would be the late 20s, as Mclaren didn't want to compromise their light and agile handling philosophy. So they wait for better battery tech.

I may have missed remembered a little as it is a year gone by, but that was the gist.

If memory serves, I recall several supercar manufacturers saying the same.

[Mansell89]

Really looking forward to this season. I can't explain why, but Daniel feels like a really good fit with the team. I could see this being the start of a long term relationship if McLaren give him a car that he can compete at the front in in 2022 onwards.

I agree- Daniel is the ideal personality for McLarens energetic, positive environment and their style of modern, fun but driven marketing pitch.

He comes in at a really good window in his career and hopefully McLaren can give him a car that in the new regs can be a regular podium contender!

[diffuser]

This topic is really polluting the McLaren Thread now, perhaps it could be moved to its own topic before any more comments are made?

Polluting? Off topic maybe but probably the most interesting thing talked about in the last 10 pages.

[mwillems]

Steam enthusiasts also love the roar of steam locomotives, and the theatre of plumes of steam and venting this and that and so forth. {I just think they're neat! }

Younger people increasingly prefer EVs, especially those under the age of 15, and it would be remiss for F1 or performance car manufacturers to only cater to an older audience (sadly), as much as V12s are a joy.

So when is the range of McLaren EVs coming out?

I remember this conversation in last years off season

I don't know if they have changed their minds but quotes from Mclaren were saying that it would be the late 20s, as Mclaren didn't want to compromise their light and agile handling philosophy. So they wait for better battery tech.

I may have missed remembered a little as it is a year gone by, but that was the gist.

If memory serves, I recall several supercar manufacturers saying the same.

It turns out I'm not senile yet.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/368743/no-mc ... ercar-yet/

This may have been the article I read early last year, below is a link confirming it will be the mid to late decade that they expect fully electric Mclarens.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/22/mclaren ... rcars.html

However, all it will take is one big breakthrough in battery tech and the way Tesla and other car companies are pouring money into the industry now, it is only a matter of time. There are "rumours" that the breakthrough is one the verge now (But those rumours have been around for ages, with graphene and such), but it will still be a few years before it arrives in a car. And if a car manufacturer makes the breakthrough, then you'll be hard pressed to see it in other cars.

The new model s can do 400 miles and if a Macca was lighter and more aerodynamic it might fare better. If.

It's be pretty interesting to see the powertrain in a Mclaren in any case. I wish a very rich person just transferred it for fun, if that was possible, just to see the outcome.

[the EDGE]

This topic is really polluting the McLaren Thread now, perhaps it could be moved to its own topic before any more comments are made?

Polluting? Off topic maybe but probably the most interesting thing talked about in the last 10 pages.

Yer well maybe polluting is the wrong word but it has little to do directly with McLaren

What I wanted to say is fossil fuel may be dead (no pun intended ) but ICEs don’t have to be, there is no country banning them, only the fuel they currently use

But I’d rather said it somewhere other than here

[the EDGE]

I’d much rather talk about Lando in the McLaren thread

I don’t think there can be an F1 fan out there that hasn’t warmed to him, he’s one of life’s genuinely nice guys. His off-track presence is unique, what he did in the first lockdown when he shaved his head for charity is something I’ll never forget. It’s is drivers like him that will be the saviour of F1, bringing in the new young fans the sport so desperately needs

On track his approach to starting his career has been very different to the likes of Max, who threw him self in and made a very large, and somewhat (at times) controversial splash tangling with others, but proving he is an undoubtable future star for word go

Matching Carlos blow for blow in quali (slightly ahead on paper) & his number of q3 appearances shows he has the speed & talent over a single lap, and that can be carried over to race day where he has had some quality races easily holding off the guys behind

His starts have definitely improved, from often falling back in ‘19 to holding his own, and now to someone who can be relied on to move forward, and someone who can race wheel to wheel without causing an incident, but he still hasn’t really shown he can take the fight to the guy in front when he finds himself running down the order a little, in the same way Carlos has over the past year. Is that just being masked by circumstances? Is it he needs to get on top of the tyres more? Is he struggling to get to grips with the way current F1 cars make overtaking more complicated than F1 cars (due to loss of performance when following) Or maybe he just needs to be a bit more ballsy or aggressive?

Wherever McLaren end up this year, one of the seasons highlights for me will be watching what happens with the new team mate battles, Seb v stroll & Charles v Carlos undoubtedly stand out as the best battles to watch for me as both have the ability to prove a shock to some people one way or another in a way (I don’t think Max v Perez or Alonso v Ocon do, I think they’re forgone conclusions)

But what is going to happen with Lando v Danny? Carlos proved a very good choice for McLaren, his talent was obvious before he joined McLaren and he has really proved his race craft over the past 2 years, and definitely repaid McLaren for their choice, it’s a shame to see him move on but I don’t think anyone at McLaren or any of us Fans are really upset because Carlos has a great new home & we have a terrific new driver in his place, indeed another one of F1s greats

So we have 2 very special drivers this year, 2 of the fans biggest favourites, I think Danny will bring a lot to McLaren, more than what Carlos could in terms of pushing the team & developing the car (& I hope results too (was this emoji actually based on Danny Ric?))

But how do my fellow McLaren fans think Lando will stack-up against him? Will he be able to match him in quali, or even beat him over the course of the season like last 2 years with Carlos?

With 2 years of experience under his belt will Lando be able to take the fight to the car in front like we know Danny will be able to, or is Danny going to leave us questioning Lando’s ultimate pace?

His 3rd year needs to show the same trajectory of improvement as the first 2 have if he is to be considered one of the stars of the future. He obviously doesn’t need to beat his far more experienced team mate across the course of the season, but he can’t allow himself to be left in his dust, he must prove he is capable of matching, if not beating him, in a fair fight, on occasion at least, and that the skill Lando has shown when he got the tag ‘Last Lap Lando’ is not just down to a tyre advantage, it is genuine ability. I know he has it in him, I really hope we see him flourish this year

[mclaren111]

I'm on the opinion that the car has to consume petrol, burn the asphalt and spew flames out of the exhausts.

Amen...

[mwillems]

I’d much rather talk about Lando in the McLaren thread

I don’t think there can be an F1 fan out there that hasn’t warmed to him, he’s one of life’s genuinely nice guys. His off-track presence is unique, what he did in the first lockdown when he shaved his head for charity is something I’ll never forget. It’s is drivers like him that will be the saviour of F1, bringing in the new young fans the sport so desperately needs

On track his approach to starting his career has been very different to the likes of Max, who threw him self in and made a very large, and somewhat (at times) controversial splash tangling with others, but proving he is an undoubtable future star for word go

Matching Carlos blow for blow in quali (slightly ahead on paper) & his number of q3 appearances shows he has the speed & talent over a single lap, and that can be carried over to race day where he has had some quality races easily holding off the guys behind

His starts have definitely improved, from often falling back in ‘19 to holding his own, and now to someone who can be relied on to move forward, and someone who can race wheel to wheel without causing an incident, but he still hasn’t really shown he can take the fight to the guy in front when he finds himself running down the order a little, in the same way Carlos has over the past year. Is that just being masked by circumstances? Is it he needs to get on top of the tyres more? Is he struggling to get to grips with the way current F1 cars make overtaking more complicated than F1 cars (due to loss of performance when following) Or maybe he just needs to be a bit more ballsy or aggressive?

Wherever McLaren end up this year, one of the seasons highlights for me will be watching what happens with the new team mate battles, Seb v stroll & Charles v Carlos undoubtedly stand out as the best battles to watch for me as both have the ability to prove a shock to some people one way or another in a way (I don’t think Max v Perez or Alonso v Ocon do, I think they’re forgone conclusions)

But what is going to happen with Lando v Danny? Carlos proved a very good choice for McLaren, his talent was obvious before he joined McLaren and he has really proved his race craft over the past 2 years, and definitely repaid McLaren for their choice, it’s a shame to see him move on but I don’t think anyone at McLaren or any of us Fans are really upset because Carlos has a great new home & we have a terrific new driver in his place, indeed another one of F1s greats

So we have 2 very special drivers this year, 2 of the fans biggest favourites, I think Danny will bring a lot to McLaren, more than what Carlos could in terms of pushing the team & developing the car (& I hope results too (was this emoji actually based on Danny Ric?))

But how do my fellow McLaren fans think Lando will stack-up against him? Will he be able to match him in quali, or even beat him over the course of the season like last 2 years with Carlos?

With 2 years of experience under his belt will Lando be able to take the fight to the car in front like we know Danny will be able to, or is Danny going to leave us questioning Lando’s ultimate pace?

His 3rd year needs to show the same trajectory of improvement as the first 2 have if he is to be considered one of the stars of the future. He obviously doesn’t need to beat his far more experienced team mate across the course of the season, but he can’t allow himself to be left in his dust, he must prove he is capable of matching, if not beating him, in a fair fight, on occasion at least, and that the skill Lando has shown when he got the tag ‘Last Lap Lando’ is not just down to a tyre advantage, it is genuine ability. I know he has it in him, I really hope we see him flourish this year

I think he has a tough year but it all depends on the expecations from him. This is his third year, so he can't be making Newbie mistakes and he has to start showcasing regularly now. But by the same token, I expect that the team will view DR as the superior driver and not expect Lando to be on a par.

But how close do they think he should be? I guess they have analysis that shows what the difference would be but they will look at that and set a target. Should he be as close to DR this year as he was to Sainz last year? I feel that will be the expectation, for him to push Danny, but I personally feel like he has his work cut out.

I hope this year shows me different, but I feel like he's not quite showing the grit yet that I'd personally like to see from him. And I think working with DR will show him how he can be a nice guy, fair and a hard bitten fighter aswell.

I don't doubt his talents, I've said it before, I just feel that there's something lacking in his mentality that is stopping him from being a star driver and I hope it is just youth. He feels a little too mild and eager to please, not enough raw and gritty for me at this point. We did see more elbows last year, but I want to see elbows and anger.

But that's not me slamming him, he's a very capable driver who is good enough to develop at Mclaren and will get us important points. And he is a top guy and he is slowly developing his racecraft. In my head the question is in terms of, is he future World Drivers Champion material. I'm not so sure right now.

[_cerber1]

[Macklaren]

Lewis' 1-year Mercedes contract renewal is intriguing. Still holding out small hope that he chooses to end his career at McLaren for a couple years

[SmallSoldier]

I’d much rather talk about Lando in the McLaren thread

I don’t think there can be an F1 fan out there that hasn’t warmed to him, he’s one of life’s genuinely nice guys. His off-track presence is unique, what he did in the first lockdown when he shaved his head for charity is something I’ll never forget. It’s is drivers like him that will be the saviour of F1, bringing in the new young fans the sport so desperately needs

On track his approach to starting his career has been very different to the likes of Max, who threw him self in and made a very large, and somewhat (at times) controversial splash tangling with others, but proving he is an undoubtable future star for word go

Matching Carlos blow for blow in quali (slightly ahead on paper) & his number of q3 appearances shows he has the speed & talent over a single lap, and that can be carried over to race day where he has had some quality races easily holding off the guys behind

His starts have definitely improved, from often falling back in ‘19 to holding his own, and now to someone who can be relied on to move forward, and someone who can race wheel to wheel without causing an incident, but he still hasn’t really shown he can take the fight to the guy in front when he finds himself running down the order a little, in the same way Carlos has over the past year. Is that just being masked by circumstances? Is it he needs to get on top of the tyres more? Is he struggling to get to grips with the way current F1 cars make overtaking more complicated than F1 cars (due to loss of performance when following) Or maybe he just needs to be a bit more ballsy or aggressive?

Wherever McLaren end up this year, one of the seasons highlights for me will be watching what happens with the new team mate battles, Seb v stroll & Charles v Carlos undoubtedly stand out as the best battles to watch for me as both have the ability to prove a shock to some people one way or another in a way (I don’t think Max v Perez or Alonso v Ocon do, I think they’re forgone conclusions)

But what is going to happen with Lando v Danny? Carlos proved a very good choice for McLaren, his talent was obvious before he joined McLaren and he has really proved his race craft over the past 2 years, and definitely repaid McLaren for their choice, it’s a shame to see him move on but I don’t think anyone at McLaren or any of us Fans are really upset because Carlos has a great new home & we have a terrific new driver in his place, indeed another one of F1s greats

So we have 2 very special drivers this year, 2 of the fans biggest favourites, I think Danny will bring a lot to McLaren, more than what Carlos could in terms of pushing the team & developing the car (& I hope results too (was this emoji actually based on Danny Ric?))

But how do my fellow McLaren fans think Lando will stack-up against him? Will he be able to match him in quali, or even beat him over the course of the season like last 2 years with Carlos?

With 2 years of experience under his belt will Lando be able to take the fight to the car in front like we know Danny will be able to, or is Danny going to leave us questioning Lando’s ultimate pace?

His 3rd year needs to show the same trajectory of improvement as the first 2 have if he is to be considered one of the stars of the future. He obviously doesn’t need to beat his far more experienced team mate across the course of the season, but he can’t allow himself to be left in his dust, he must prove he is capable of matching, if not beating him, in a fair fight, on occasion at least, and that the skill Lando has shown when he got the tag ‘Last Lap Lando’ is not just down to a tyre advantage, it is genuine ability. I know he has it in him, I really hope we see him flourish this year

Great write up... I agree with most of your thoughts.

In regards to Lando, I still have a lot of confidence in his ability as a driver and I’m quiet impressed with what he has done in his first 2 years with the team and would argue that his performance has been masked by not driving in a “Top Car” during those seasons.

A lot of people draw comparisons to the likes of Verstappen and Charles (and those are warranted if the expectation is for Lando to be in that top tier of drivers in the grid), but seem to also forget that those 2 had the luxury of driving top cars very soon in their careers and therefore it was to be expected for them to show more than Lando.

When someone like Max is in a Red Bull, that is at least targeting for P3 and watches him making overtakes on cars that aren’t as quick, looks very impressive, but it also has a lot to do with the car itself allowing the driver to showcase his skills... Albon looked like a future WDC in Spa of 2019 when he finished 5th after starting at the back of the grid and making spectacular moves... Today, Albon is no longer in the grid and surely not considered WDC material by Red Bull... When Max moved to Red Bull in 2016, he moved into a car that finished the season in P2 in the WCC.

Leclerc’s is a similar story in regards to jumping to a Top Tier car early in his career and been able to showcase his skills more than someone in a midfield car... I would argue that Leclerc’s season at Sauber - Alfa Romeo wasn’t more impressive than Lando’s first season... His second season (first in Ferrari) was incredible, but he was also driving what was arguably the second best (and at times the best) car on the grid on that season.

Lando has done a great job in his first couple of seasons with he team... The argument is that he could have been more aggressive, but what is the point of having a couple of great overtakes or dairying first lap moves if ultimately the car doesn’t finish? Without him been as careful as he has been, Mclaren probably wouldn’t have finished P4 in 2019 and most definitely wouldn’t have finished P3 in 2020... And his performance when measured against Carlos talks about a very fast driver that for the most part held his own.

When the comparison with Carlos is brought up, I believe that Sainz is an underrated driver... In his first season, measured against who is considered one of the fastest drivers on the grid (Max) in the same car, he showed that he was not only as fast as Max, but that he could also be the fastest of the two in Qualifying and with a very limited spread between the two when they were besting each other... I believe that he will surprise more than one this season wearing red and will finally have the possibility of showing what he can do in a top car (If Ferrari of course brings a decent car to the season), but I don’t expect him to suffer versus Leclerc as most think he will.

In summary, I don’t really understand what most seems to be expecting / wanting from Norris... He did a great job in the last couple of seasons and particularly in 2020, he fought the cars around him in a car that seemed to suffer when not in free air more than others (Carlos versus Gasly at Monza comes to mind, where Carlos had the pace, but couldn’t get in within striking distance)... I much rather him bringing the car home than over driving the car and either not finishing or been an easy pray at the end of the GP’s.

Daniel is a proven commodity, a great driver and surely is expected to have a leadership role in the team, bot on and off the track, but I have a feeling that Lando will be very close in terms of performance, especially in qualifying and wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up edging RIC several times through the season... It will be interesting to see how fast Daniel adjusts to the car and most importantly if both drivers converge in a similar setup that suits them both.


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[Ground Effect]

Lots of renewals, but no new major sponsors. It’s quite understandable in the current economic climate. The good news on the renewals is a couple of multi year extensions, except Coca Cola, that keeps treating us like Mercedes treat Bottas.

[mwillems]

I’d much rather talk about Lando in the McLaren thread

I don’t think there can be an F1 fan out there that hasn’t warmed to him, he’s one of life’s genuinely nice guys. His off-track presence is unique, what he did in the first lockdown when he shaved his head for charity is something I’ll never forget. It’s is drivers like him that will be the saviour of F1, bringing in the new young fans the sport so desperately needs...

Great write up... I agree with most of your thoughts.

In regards to Lando, I still have a lot of confidence in his ability as a driver and I’m quiet impressed with what he has done in his first 2 years with the team and would argue that his performance has been masked by not driving in a “Top Car” during those seasons.

A lot of people draw comparisons to the likes of Verstappen and Charles (and those are warranted if the expectation is for Lando to be in that top tier of drivers in the grid), but seem to also forget that those 2 had the luxury of driving top cars very soon in their careers and therefore it was to be expected for them to show more than Lando.

When someone like Max is in a Red Bull, that is at least targeting for P3 and watches him making overtakes on cars that aren’t as quick, looks very impressive, but it also has a lot to do with the car itself allowing the driver to showcase his skills... Albon looked like a future WDC in Spa of 2019 when he finished 5th after starting at the back of the grid and making spectacular moves... Today, Albon is no longer in the grid and surely not considered WDC material by Red Bull... When Max moved to Red Bull in 2016, he moved into a car that finished the season in P2 in the WCC.

Leclerc’s is a similar story in regards to jumping to a Top Tier car early in his career and been able to showcase his skills more than someone in a midfield car... I would argue that Leclerc’s season at Sauber - Alfa Romeo wasn’t more impressive than Lando’s first season... His second season (first in Ferrari) was incredible, but he was also driving what was arguably the second best (and at times the best) car on the grid on that season.

Lando has done a great job in his first couple of seasons with he team... The argument is that he could have been more aggressive, but what is the point of having a couple of great overtakes or dairying first lap moves if ultimately the car doesn’t finish? Without him been as careful as he has been, Mclaren probably wouldn’t have finished P4 in 2019 and most definitely wouldn’t have finished P3 in 2020... And his performance when measured against Carlos talks about a very fast driver that for the most part held his own.

When the comparison with Carlos is brought up, I believe that Sainz is an underrated driver... In his first season, measured against who is considered one of the fastest drivers on the grid (Max) in the same car, he showed that he was not only as fast as Max, but that he could also be the fastest of the two in Qualifying and with a very limited spread between the two when they were besting each other... I believe that he will surprise more than one this season wearing red and will finally have the possibility of showing what he can do in a top car (If Ferrari of course brings a decent car to the season), but I don’t expect him to suffer versus Leclerc as most think he will.

In summary, I don’t really understand what most seems to be expecting / wanting from Norris... He did a great job in the last couple of seasons and particularly in 2020, he fought the cars around him in a car that seemed to suffer when not in free air more than others (Carlos versus Gasly at Monza comes to mind, where Carlos had the pace, but couldn’t get in within striking distance)... I much rather him bringing the car home than over driving the car and either not finishing or been an easy pray at the end of the GP’s.

Daniel is a proven commodity, a great driver and surely is expected to have a leadership role in the team, bot on and off the track, but I have a feeling that Lando will be very close in terms of performance, especially in qualifying and wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up edging RIC several times through the season... It will be interesting to see how fast Daniel adjusts to the car and most importantly if both drivers converge in a similar setup that suits them both.


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The Max v Sainz comparison is quite old now I think, and I'm not sure how relevant it is. Carlos also didn't fare brilliantly against Hulkenberg so I don't want to say that Sainz was a Max level (or near it) driver when he came to Mclaren.

I hope you're right, but my gut feeling is that DR is going to be faster than Carlos was and that Lando is going to be the bridesmaid once again this year.

And to be fair I'm not saying I want him to be more aggressive and risk crashing, I want him to be more aggressive without crashing

[SmallSoldier]

I’d much rather talk about Lando in the McLaren thread

I don’t think there can be an F1 fan out there that hasn’t warmed to him, he’s one of life’s genuinely nice guys. His off-track presence is unique, what he did in the first lockdown when he shaved his head for charity is something I’ll never forget. It’s is drivers like him that will be the saviour of F1, bringing in the new young fans the sport so desperately needs...

Great write up... I agree with most of your thoughts.

In regards to Lando, I still have a lot of confidence in his ability as a driver and I’m quiet impressed with what he has done in his first 2 years with the team and would argue that his performance has been masked by not driving in a “Top Car” during those seasons.

A lot of people draw comparisons to the likes of Verstappen and Charles (and those are warranted if the expectation is for Lando to be in that top tier of drivers in the grid), but seem to also forget that those 2 had the luxury of driving top cars very soon in their careers and therefore it was to be expected for them to show more than Lando.

When someone like Max is in a Red Bull, that is at least targeting for P3 and watches him making overtakes on cars that aren’t as quick, looks very impressive, but it also has a lot to do with the car itself allowing the driver to showcase his skills... Albon looked like a future WDC in Spa of 2019 when he finished 5th after starting at the back of the grid and making spectacular moves... Today, Albon is no longer in the grid and surely not considered WDC material by Red Bull... When Max moved to Red Bull in 2016, he moved into a car that finished the season in P2 in the WCC.

Leclerc’s is a similar story in regards to jumping to a Top Tier car early in his career and been able to showcase his skills more than someone in a midfield car... I would argue that Leclerc’s season at Sauber - Alfa Romeo wasn’t more impressive than Lando’s first season... His second season (first in Ferrari) was incredible, but he was also driving what was arguably the second best (and at times the best) car on the grid on that season.

Lando has done a great job in his first couple of seasons with he team... The argument is that he could have been more aggressive, but what is the point of having a couple of great overtakes or dairying first lap moves if ultimately the car doesn’t finish? Without him been as careful as he has been, Mclaren probably wouldn’t have finished P4 in 2019 and most definitely wouldn’t have finished P3 in 2020... And his performance when measured against Carlos talks about a very fast driver that for the most part held his own.

When the comparison with Carlos is brought up, I believe that Sainz is an underrated driver... In his first season, measured against who is considered one of the fastest drivers on the grid (Max) in the same car, he showed that he was not only as fast as Max, but that he could also be the fastest of the two in Qualifying and with a very limited spread between the two when they were besting each other... I believe that he will surprise more than one this season wearing red and will finally have the possibility of showing what he can do in a top car (If Ferrari of course brings a decent car to the season), but I don’t expect him to suffer versus Leclerc as most think he will.

In summary, I don’t really understand what most seems to be expecting / wanting from Norris... He did a great job in the last couple of seasons and particularly in 2020, he fought the cars around him in a car that seemed to suffer when not in free air more than others (Carlos versus Gasly at Monza comes to mind, where Carlos had the pace, but couldn’t get in within striking distance)... I much rather him bringing the car home than over driving the car and either not finishing or been an easy pray at the end of the GP’s.

Daniel is a proven commodity, a great driver and surely is expected to have a leadership role in the team, bot on and off the track, but I have a feeling that Lando will be very close in terms of performance, especially in qualifying and wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up edging RIC several times through the season... It will be interesting to see how fast Daniel adjusts to the car and most importantly if both drivers converge in a similar setup that suits them both.


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The Max v Sainz comparison is quite old now I think, and I'm not sure how relevant it is. Carlos also didn't fare brilliantly against Hulkenberg so I don't want to say that Sainz was a Max level (or near it) driver when he came to Mclaren.

I hope you're right, but my gut feeling is that DR is going to be faster than Carlos was and that Lando is going to be the bridesmaid once again this year.

And to be fair I'm not saying I want him to be more aggressive and risk crashing, I want him to be more aggressive without crashing

The Max vs Carlos comparison was just to make a point that since the start of his career, he was a fast driver... Carlos’ season in Renault is a tricky one to evaluate, not only was he there in a loan from STR and he didn’t seem to have the team behind him, late in the season he was already bound to Mclaren for 2019 and it was known also from mid season that he was going to be replaced by RIC, which should have had an effect on his on track performance.

But, I wasn’t trying to make this a comparison of past seasons to determine who is better or faster driver... The point I was trying to make is that it is hard for drivers to showcase their talent with midfield cars... With how close the performance of the Mclaren, RP, Ferrari, Renault and even STR was in the mix in more than one race... The fact that Lando managed to score as many points as he did and outqualified them in more races than not shows a great degree of skill.

Reviewing the 2020 season, Lando didn’t made many mistakes and had more highlights than lowlights, I thought it was a pretty mature drive all season for such a young driver.


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[mwillems]

Great write up... I agree with most of your thoughts.

In regards to Lando, I still have a lot of confidence in his ability as a driver and I’m quiet impressed with what he has done in his first 2 years with the team and would argue that his performance has been masked by not driving in a “Top Car” during those seasons.

A lot of people draw comparisons to the likes of Verstappen and Charles (and those are warranted if the expectation is for Lando to be in that top tier of drivers in the grid), but seem to also forget that those 2 had the luxury of driving top cars very soon in their careers and therefore it was to be expected for them to show more than Lando.

When someone like Max is in a Red Bull, that is at least targeting for P3 and watches him making overtakes on cars that aren’t as quick, looks very impressive, but it also has a lot to do with the car itself allowing the driver to showcase his skills... Albon looked like a future WDC in Spa of 2019 when he finished 5th after starting at the back of the grid and making spectacular moves... Today, Albon is no longer in the grid and surely not considered WDC material by Red Bull... When Max moved to Red Bull in 2016, he moved into a car that finished the season in P2 in the WCC.

Leclerc’s is a similar story in regards to jumping to a Top Tier car early in his career and been able to showcase his skills more than someone in a midfield car... I would argue that Leclerc’s season at Sauber - Alfa Romeo wasn’t more impressive than Lando’s first season... His second season (first in Ferrari) was incredible, but he was also driving what was arguably the second best (and at times the best) car on the grid on that season.

Lando has done a great job in his first couple of seasons with he team... The argument is that he could have been more aggressive, but what is the point of having a couple of great overtakes or dairying first lap moves if ultimately the car doesn’t finish? Without him been as careful as he has been, Mclaren probably wouldn’t have finished P4 in 2019 and most definitely wouldn’t have finished P3 in 2020... And his performance when measured against Carlos talks about a very fast driver that for the most part held his own.

When the comparison with Carlos is brought up, I believe that Sainz is an underrated driver... In his first season, measured against who is considered one of the fastest drivers on the grid (Max) in the same car, he showed that he was not only as fast as Max, but that he could also be the fastest of the two in Qualifying and with a very limited spread between the two when they were besting each other... I believe that he will surprise more than one this season wearing red and will finally have the possibility of showing what he can do in a top car (If Ferrari of course brings a decent car to the season), but I don’t expect him to suffer versus Leclerc as most think he will.

In summary, I don’t really understand what most seems to be expecting / wanting from Norris... He did a great job in the last couple of seasons and particularly in 2020, he fought the cars around him in a car that seemed to suffer when not in free air more than others (Carlos versus Gasly at Monza comes to mind, where Carlos had the pace, but couldn’t get in within striking distance)... I much rather him bringing the car home than over driving the car and either not finishing or been an easy pray at the end of the GP’s.

Daniel is a proven commodity, a great driver and surely is expected to have a leadership role in the team, bot on and off the track, but I have a feeling that Lando will be very close in terms of performance, especially in qualifying and wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up edging RIC several times through the season... It will be interesting to see how fast Daniel adjusts to the car and most importantly if both drivers converge in a similar setup that suits them both.


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The Max v Sainz comparison is quite old now I think, and I'm not sure how relevant it is. Carlos also didn't fare brilliantly against Hulkenberg so I don't want to say that Sainz was a Max level (or near it) driver when he came to Mclaren.

I hope you're right, but my gut feeling is that DR is going to be faster than Carlos was and that Lando is going to be the bridesmaid once again this year.

And to be fair I'm not saying I want him to be more aggressive and risk crashing, I want him to be more aggressive without crashing

The Max vs Carlos comparison was just to make a point that since the start of his career, he was a fast driver... Carlos’ season in Renault is a tricky one to evaluate, not only was he there in a loan from STR and he didn’t seem to have the team behind him, late in the season he was already bound to Mclaren for 2019 and it was known also from mid season that he was going to be replaced by RIC, which should have had an effect on his on track performance.

But, I wasn’t trying to make this a comparison of past seasons to determine who is better or faster driver... The point I was trying to make is that it is hard for drivers to showcase their talent with midfield cars... With how close the performance of the Mclaren, RP, Ferrari, Renault and even STR was in the mix in more than one race... The fact that Lando managed to score as many points as he did and outqualified them in more races than not shows a great degree of skill.

Reviewing the 2020 season, Lando didn’t made many mistakes and had more highlights than lowlights, I thought it was a pretty mature drive all season for such a young driver.


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To be honest I take these conversations with a pinch of salt, they are just harmless fun as we don't have the data to fully assess. It's all just a little bit of gut feeling and luck.

"Mistakes" was the wrong word, and I thought this after I wrote it. It was more that there were too many times when he just stopped making progress in the field for half a race when you felt he should have been able to make more of those situations. There were definitely lot's of highlights for sure, but too much stagnation in races too I think.

But that's not to say he won't develop away from it, I just feel like the piece that will make the difference is not necessarily in his hands or feet but in his approach.