2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[zibby43]

https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... k=R52qlAx2

Proof enough that the overtake was legal??

No! Because in a second Max will be out of the track. Hamilton hit the apex because he slowed down, Verstappen drove by.

https://f1-insider.com/wp-content/uploa ... 24x683.jpg

He was in front before he went off track. So the off track time gain is the same Hamilton gained 29 times...

[dans79]

He was in front before he went off track. So the off track time gain is the same Hamilton gained 29 times...

It doesn't work that way. If you go into a turn with an overlap, you must complete the pass & the turn without leaving track limits.

[Marti_EF3]

No! Because in a second Max will be out of the track. Hamilton hit the apex because he slowed down, Verstappen drove by.

https://f1-insider.com/wp-content/uploa ... 24x683.jpg

He was in front before he went off track. So the off track time gain is the same Hamilton gained 29 times...

https://twitter.com/NorthHertsSam/statu ... 86274?s=20

Did it 29 times too before the team told him to do so? Or what is your point? Because first is good, then the warning starts with FIA changing their mind (Michael Masi can say what he wants, but they did it)

[Sieper]

In actual fact, you see max’ tires were still on the kerbstones. This would have been a valid qualy lap. Lewis left the track (and the kerbstones for 29 laps). These would all have been taken away in qualy and in fp.

But none of this is pertinent to the team thread, some users have really derailed it, users that you never see here normally.

[godlameroso]

Verstappen had more pace but lost out by not copying Mercedes strategy of using the hards. This is the difference, and why he lost vs when Hamilton won in Hungary.

At first stop, Hamilton had 50% chance of overtaking. They did the right call, unless planned to do the same thing later on second stop.
They were risking to stop, come behind Hamilton and and have tyres with same age

It doesn't matter, the way it played out, Verstappen was too far away from Hamilton to pressure him during the middle of the race, Hamilton undercut him, he would have ended up behind regardless of what he did by staying out a few more laps. If Hamilton undercut Verstappen, but Verstappen pitted earlier, he would have been closer than 8 seconds to Hamilton, maybe pushed him to burn his tires. That would have opened options, instead he waited too late, until his pace was too low, got passed in the pits and couldn't repass on track.

[dans79]

If Hamilton undercut Verstappen, but Verstappen pitted earlier, he would have been closer than 8 seconds to Hamilton, maybe pushed him to burn his tires. That would have opened options, instead he waited too late, until his pace was too low, got passed in the pits and couldn't repass on track.

If Max had pitted earlier, he would have had to manage his tires more just like Lewis was doing. And to be frank, I'm not sure Max had the pace on his second or 3rd stint to overcome the time delta needed to pull of an overtake even with drs.

[zibby43]

He was in front before he went off track. So the off track time gain is the same Hamilton gained 29 times...

It doesn't work that way. If you go into a turn with an overlap, you must complete the pass & the turn without leaving track limits.

It's really that simple. The fact that Max himself ceded the position immediately after the order to do so, together with the fact that he expressed he knew it was the right call after the race, should really make this a moot point.

I applaud Max's maturity in handling that moment. He's come a long way in honing that aggressiveness as he's matured and he clearly knows he's in it to fight for the entire season this year.

[DChemTech]

He was in front before he went off track. So the off track time gain is the same Hamilton gained 29 times...

It doesn't work that way. If you go into a turn with an overlap, you must complete the pass & the turn without leaving track limits.

It's really that simple. The fact that Max himself ceded the position immediately after the order to do so, together with the fact that he expressed he knew it was the right call after the race, should really make this a moot point.

I applaud Max's maturity in handling that moment. He's come a long way in honing that aggressiveness as he's matured and he clearly knows he's in it to fight for the entire season this year.

No, its not that simple. If you gain 0.05s a lap by going wide, that can add up to some seconds during a race. Which may just be enough to fend off an attack or place one in the last few laps. That is just as much gaining an advantage as going off-track once to overtake.

And yes, I know that "was allowed in T4 and disussed in the drivers briefing and yadayadayada". But that something is 'in the rules' doesnt mean the rules are good - in this case the rules are very poor.

And that is the two camps I see here. Not camp pro-max and pro-hamilton. But: camp 'this are the rules and deal with it' and camp 'we need better rules to avoid these issues to begin with'.

[zibby43]

It doesn't work that way. If you go into a turn with an overlap, you must complete the pass & the turn without leaving track limits.

It's really that simple. The fact that Max himself ceded the position immediately after the order to do so, together with the fact that he expressed he knew it was the right call after the race, should really make this a moot point.

I applaud Max's maturity in handling that moment. He's come a long way in honing that aggressiveness as he's matured and he clearly knows he's in it to fight for the entire season this year.

No, its not that simple. If you gain 0.05s a lap by going wide, that can add up to some seconds during a race. Which may just be enough to fend off an attack or place one in the last few laps. That is just as much gaining an advantage as going off-track once to overtake.

And yes, I know that "was allowed in T4 and disussed in the drivers briefing and yadayadayada". But that something is 'in the rules' doesnt mean the rules are good - in this case the rules are very poor.

And that is the two camps I see here. Not camp pro-max and pro-hamilton. But: camp 'this are the rules and deal with it' and camp 'we need better rules to avoid these issues to begin with'.

You wouldn’t need rules if there was grass and then gravel outside the white lines.

[dans79]

No, its not that simple. If you gain 0.05s a lap by going wide, that can add up to some seconds during a race.

The gain is irrelevant if everyone is doing it, because everyone gains the same advantage. Hence the reason why the FIA constantly informs the teams and the drivers what is and isn't allowed.

[nzjrs]

Some new faces in this thread. If you've travelled over from the Mercedes threads, don't forget to adjust your watches. The weather forecast for today is sunny. Thankyou for flying with us and we hope you enjoy your stay.

[dans79]

If Hamilton undercut Verstappen, but Verstappen pitted earlier, he would have been closer than 8 seconds to Hamilton, maybe pushed him to burn his tires. That would have opened options, instead he waited too late, until his pace was too low, got passed in the pits and couldn't repass on track.

If Max had pitted earlier, he would have had to manage his tires more just like Lewis was doing. And to be frank, I'm not sure Max had the pace on his second or 3rd stint to overcome the time delta needed to pull of an overtake even with drs.

just as a follow up, when I say time delta this is what im talking about. This is from 2018 (couldn't find anything for this year), but it wouldn't surprise me if this years time delta wasn't like 2017 or worse, thanks to the floor changes.

https://topgear-autoguide.com/category/ ... 1607100755

[Flying JPS Lotus]

Anyone else excited for Perez this year? During the race it was really nice to see the 2nd RBR driver looking confident when overtaking. I haven't seen the 2nd driver look that committed to overtaking in a long time.

I think he did well between so many mishaps. We need to see him in a better race with better starting P.

Perez said it would take him 5 races to get used to the car. For now I think Sunday was the perfect confidence builder for Checo. Really excited to see how Quali goes for him at Imola.

[godlameroso]

If Hamilton undercut Verstappen, but Verstappen pitted earlier, he would have been closer than 8 seconds to Hamilton, maybe pushed him to burn his tires. That would have opened options, instead he waited too late, until his pace was too low, got passed in the pits and couldn't repass on track.

If Max had pitted earlier, he would have had to manage his tires more just like Lewis was doing. And to be frank, I'm not sure Max had the pace on his second or 3rd stint to overcome the time delta needed to pull of an overtake even with drs.

Neither did Hamilton in Hungary, but he pressured Verstappen into burning his tires, which meant he could extract a pace advantage to force him to stay on the used rubber or giving up track position, Verstappen chose the latter. Verstappen needs to force Hamilton into a similar scenario to be able to pass on track. Or maybe he should have saved his attack for a lap later, who knows.

[godlameroso]

Anyone else excited for Perez this year? During the race it was really nice to see the 2nd RBR driver looking confident when overtaking. I haven't seen the 2nd driver look that committed to overtaking in a long time.

I think he did well between so many mishaps. We need to see him in a better race with better starting P.

Perez said it would take him 5 races to get used to the car. For now I think Sunday was the perfect confidence builder for Checo. Really excited to see how Quali goes for him at Imola.

The new tires don't have the same qualifying pace as the tires did last year, but in race conditions the new tires work better than last year.