2021 Ferrari F1 Team

[wowgr8]

Thank you for summarizing. One point I don’t understand though, is how can the Renault be close behind if they reportedly didn’t improve the PU and Mercedes and Honda (even more) both made significant improvements?

I don't think Renault stood still on the power front, they most probably did improve but not as much as the other two. Nugnes says that Merc also had some issues with overheating of the hybrid part of the PU, and we know about their clipping issues. I think if Mercedes could stretch their legs they'd be clearly ahead of Honda, and Honda a not too big distance away from Renault

I think this confusion is a consequence of the rule change last year. If all the PU manufacturers could use full power in qualifying it would make it easier to paint the picture (Albano mentions this in the article), but with the single mapping rule everything becomes more blurry because there's more variables

[diffuser]

Usual fantastic analysis from Fede Albano: https://www.formulapassion.it/manifesto ... 59621.html

Some points worth noting (I recommend reading the article because there's a lot more detailed info)
- Mercedes and Honda about level, Renault close behind them and Ferrari are still behind, but the gap has been halved
- The SF21 defended itself very well at Bahrain up against 2 stronger power units and also 2 cars (McLaren and AlphaTauri) built for aero efficiency, this bodes very well for tracks more aero focused like Imola
- Ferrari are still worried about reliability so it's possible they chose a more tame mapping for the PU at Bahrain
- Ferrari's hybrid deployment strategy is supposedly very very good and allows them to hide any deficiencies they may have on the ICE side well

This was a great read

Agreed,it was a great read.

The whole "power factor" is BS though. Top speed will be exponentially more affected by Downforce/drag than HP. Riccardo is likely just running less rear wing or might be a less draggy car.

[TechF1]

Not sure reliability fixes aren't allowed.

Yes they are, but you have to explain what are you going to do on your PU and get the agree also from the other manufacturers and you'll get also penalty points using too much units during the season.

Penalty points or starting further back in the race? Cause the 2 aren't the same. The First is dependent on how competitive the other teams are vs you. While the 2nd is probably the way it should have always been.

Yes you are right, but Ferrari cannot afford the risk of starting the 2022-2024 "era" badly.
At the end of 2022 they will have to start work on the new PU for the 2025 season.
If they are very confident in the reliability and the solution really gives an edge, they could probably use it in PU 2022, but I don't understand why they didn't do it this season where it's sure they won't win.
I was honestly just discussing the "scoop" from a very unreliable source.

[TechF1]

Italian edition of motorsport.com says it and here in Italy we consider it for sure as a lot of local sources are talking about this.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... 2/5578747/
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... 2/5360485/

Are you kidding? It's a total bullsh*t from Nugnez, he wrote a lot about the "superfast" combustion, it never existed because Superfast it's a Ferrari's car name not a combustion. Many repost back his fantasies just to get attention from the numerous Ferrari's fans, but he never got a single real information.
He doesn't know the F1 regulamentations, he does not follow the F1 races, he just try to attract clicks.
It's insane think to rebuild a PU architecture just before an engine development freeze, it could possibly have been done maybe with this year PU, but they will not risk next seasons till 2025.
Anyway this it's a technichal forum not a place where to discuss about Nugnez visions or fans dreams and very soon this discussion will be deleted

You know, Ferrari themselves have mentioned that they are working on a completely new engine for next year in their car launch video. Whether its that 'compressor in intake box' engine, we don't know. But that doesn't mean they cant work out a completely new concept. You gotta be ambitious if you wanna win a title. Also Renault definitely are working on a split turbo concept for next year.
These people know their stuff and the risks involved better than you do. Don't sweat yourself.

Also in 2020 season Binotto told us about a new PU that was running on the bench, Renault as well talked about a totally rebuilt PU, but the concept was more or less the same.
Anyway as stated before it was a debate about a very unreliable Journalist, not really on what Ferrari will really do, cause we don't know, but honestly i'm not so worried.
I just don't like when someone spread stupid rumors just for clicks and on a technical forum someone repost them back.

[ryaan2904]

Usual fantastic analysis from Fede Albano: https://www.formulapassion.it/manifesto ... 59621.html

Some points worth noting (I recommend reading the article because there's a lot more detailed info)
- Mercedes and Honda about level, Renault close behind them and Ferrari are still behind, but the gap has been halved
- The SF21 defended itself very well at Bahrain up against 2 stronger power units and also 2 cars (McLaren and AlphaTauri) built for aero efficiency, this bodes very well for tracks more aero focused like Imola
- Ferrari are still worried about reliability so it's possible they chose a more tame mapping for the PU at Bahrain
- Ferrari's hybrid deployment strategy is supposedly very very good and allows them to hide any deficiencies they may have on the ICE side well

This was a great read

Agreed,it was a great read.

The whole "power factor" is BS though. Top speed will be exponentially more affected by Downforce/drag than HP. Riccardo is likely just running less rear wing or might be a less draggy car.

Yeah, comparing top-speeds is a bit murky, Ferrari reached 361 kmph in spa last year yet we all know how bad that engine was.
But I think that those acceleration numbers are legit and do provide useful insight.

[ryaan2904]

Also both mclarens ran full wings and a T wing as well

[diffuser]

Are you kidding? It's a total bullsh*t from Nugnez, he wrote a lot about the "superfast" combustion, it never existed because Superfast it's a Ferrari's car name not a combustion. Many repost back his fantasies just to get attention from the numerous Ferrari's fans, but he never got a single real information.
He doesn't know the F1 regulamentations, he does not follow the F1 races, he just try to attract clicks.
It's insane think to rebuild a PU architecture just before an engine development freeze, it could possibly have been done maybe with this year PU, but they will not risk next seasons till 2025.
Anyway this it's a technichal forum not a place where to discuss about Nugnez visions or fans dreams and very soon this discussion will be deleted

You know, Ferrari themselves have mentioned that they are working on a completely new engine for next year in their car launch video. Whether its that 'compressor in intake box' engine, we don't know. But that doesn't mean they cant work out a completely new concept. You gotta be ambitious if you wanna win a title. Also Renault definitely are working on a split turbo concept for next year.
These people know their stuff and the risks involved better than you do. Don't sweat yourself.

Also in 2020 season Binotto told us about a new PU that was running on the bench, Renault as well talked about a totally rebuilt PU, but the concept was more or less the same.
Anyway as stated before it was a debate about a very unreliable Journalist, not really on what Ferrari will really do, cause we don't know, but honestly i'm not so worried.
I just don't like when someone spread stupid rumors just for clicks and on a technical forum someone repost them back.

For Renault it was for real, When Alonzo visited, they took pictures and you could see the front compressor on the bench being tested(in the pics).

[TechF1]

You know, Ferrari themselves have mentioned that they are working on a completely new engine for next year in their car launch video. Whether its that 'compressor in intake box' engine, we don't know. But that doesn't mean they cant work out a completely new concept. You gotta be ambitious if you wanna win a title. Also Renault definitely are working on a split turbo concept for next year.
These people know their stuff and the risks involved better than you do. Don't sweat yourself.

Also in 2020 season Binotto told us about a new PU that was running on the bench, Renault as well talked about a totally rebuilt PU, but the concept was more or less the same.
Anyway as stated before it was a debate about a very unreliable Journalist, not really on what Ferrari will really do, cause we don't know, but honestly i'm not so worried.
I just don't like when someone spread stupid rumors just for clicks and on a technical forum someone repost them back.

For Renault it was for real, When Alonzo visited, they took pictures and you could see the front compressor on the bench being tested(in the pics).

Yes, it is true but it is not yet on a car, it is probably unreliable, after 7 years that Mercedes presented such a solution only Honda has copied it.
I just hope for more power on the new 2022 Ferrari Pu, if it'll have split turbo compressor or other solutions it's not a matter.

[wowgr8]

https://wpkaydebdimglwujzbqzkzaaay-adwh ... lung-juni/

To keep the fight for P3 in the WCC alive Ferrari decided to bring further technical upgrades to the SF21 until June and then make the switch to the 2022 car.

[f1316]

I don’t really get why P3 is so important to them - it’s surely not the prize money and you get more wind tunnel/CFD time for next year if you finish lower, so strategically it would seem to make sense to switch 100% over to 2022 as soon as possible.

Obviously I’m not saying intentionally finish low - maximise the package - but why all the concern about P3 or P4/5? Does it really matter for Ferrari if it’s not P1? Pride I guess and/or Binotto trying to save his job short term?

[LM10]

There is no quote from any team
member suggesting they’re going to go all in for P3. The article only tells that Ferrari sees themselves in the position to fight for P3. I doubt that they’ll desperately try it, if they are far off. .
Developing until June is about that what other sources told as well. Until
Spain was what we could read of and that race is on 9th of May. Not a big difference.

[amr]

I think developing a bit this year's car will help them more to sort any correlation issue there might be, rather than get performance out of the car, which, let's not forget is based on a dog of a car. If they get some low-hanging fruits and help them with setting up the tools, processes and aero correlation for the future then why not develop until June.

[wowgr8]

I don’t really get why P3 is so important to them - it’s surely not the prize money and you get more wind tunnel/CFD time for next year if you finish lower, so strategically it would seem to make sense to switch 100% over to 2022 as soon as possible.

Obviously I’m not saying intentionally finish low - maximise the package - but why all the concern about P3 or P4/5? Does it really matter for Ferrari if it’s not P1? Pride I guess and/or Binotto trying to save his job short term?

Yes to both. We also don't know how long teams like McLaren will continue to bring updates so we don't know if this is Ferrari being overzealous. Bringing them til June could be totally standard practice. With Mercedes and Red Bull going a bit further than that and teams like Haas and Williams bringing no updates at all

[ryaan2904]

I don’t really get why P3 is so important to them - it’s surely not the prize money and you get more wind tunnel/CFD time for next year if you finish lower, so strategically it would seem to make sense to switch 100% over to 2022 as soon as possible.

Obviously I’m not saying intentionally finish low - maximise the package - but why all the concern about P3 or P4/5? Does it really matter for Ferrari if it’s not P1? Pride I guess and/or Binotto trying to save his job short term?

Cuz its Ferrari. Its not even pride, literally. Their f1 power, sponsors, business models etc don't support anything less and even that's a minimum.

[LM10]

As for the fight for P3 and whether Ferrari might develop more than originally planned just because they think P3 is reachable:

And Leclerc was adamant that his team wouldn’t compromise work on their 2022 car – and its new power unit – by getting caught up in the battle for third in the 2021 constructors’.
“I think the mentality is right,” said Leclerc. “I don't think we are getting carried away by the fight there will be during the season... for the third place in the constructors'.
“I think everyone is well aware that there is much more to gain to prepare 2022 in the right way, because these new cars will last for a lot longer, for many years after 2022, so we need to be ready for that, and I think we are getting ready as we should for this transition, so I'm not worried about that.”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... StG1o.html