McLaren MCL35M

[mwillems]

https://f1i.auto-moto.com/wp-content/up ... plat-z.jpg


Seems Mclaren's floor are narrower than needed if this article is accurate ??

https://f1i.auto-moto.com/magazine/maga ... sagrandit/

The article doesn’t make a mention to Mclaren’s been narrower, it does state that is following the regulation “as intended”, meaning a continuous line from the widest part of the floor and that Alfa Romeo and Haas are the other 2 teams following that initiative.

If all teams are maximizing the size of the floor at the rear tire, then Mclaren’s isn’t narrower and in theory has more overall floor area (since they are not losing the area in the cutout).

What surprises me is how apparently simple the floor of the Mclaren is compared to the competition... Which if it is working, it is excellent since every single winglet creates drag ultimately and that simplicity is one of the contributing factors to how fast the car is.


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Is it possible that these cut outs create an edge that create another small trailing vortex that helps keep the floor sealed?

[SmallSoldier]

https://f1i.auto-moto.com/wp-content/up ... plat-z.jpg


Seems Mclaren's floor are narrower than needed if this article is accurate ??

https://f1i.auto-moto.com/magazine/maga ... sagrandit/

The article doesn’t make a mention to Mclaren’s been narrower, it does state that is following the regulation “as intended”, meaning a continuous line from the widest part of the floor and that Alfa Romeo and Haas are the other 2 teams following that initiative.

If all teams are maximizing the size of the floor at the rear tire, then Mclaren’s isn’t narrower and in theory has more overall floor area (since they are not losing the area in the cutout).

What surprises me is how apparently simple the floor of the Mclaren is compared to the competition... Which if it is working, it is excellent since every single winglet creates drag ultimately and that simplicity is one of the contributing factors to how fast the car is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Is it possible that these cut outs create an edge that create another small trailing vortex that helps keep the floor sealed?

That’s the intention... You sacrifice a bit of floor area to create a vortex at the tip of the floor to better manage tire squirt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mwillems]

The article doesn’t make a mention to Mclaren’s been narrower, it does state that is following the regulation “as intended”, meaning a continuous line from the widest part of the floor and that Alfa Romeo and Haas are the other 2 teams following that initiative.

If all teams are maximizing the size of the floor at the rear tire, then Mclaren’s isn’t narrower and in theory has more overall floor area (since they are not losing the area in the cutout).

What surprises me is how apparently simple the floor of the Mclaren is compared to the competition... Which if it is working, it is excellent since every single winglet creates drag ultimately and that simplicity is one of the contributing factors to how fast the car is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Is it possible that these cut outs create an edge that create another small trailing vortex that helps keep the floor sealed?

That’s the intention... You sacrifice a bit of floor area to create a vortex at the tip of the floor to better manage tire squirt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Makes sense to do that, I don't think it would be too hard to implement either, it will be interesting to see if anything like that appears on the car in the near future or if it doesn't offer enough of a benefit. I'd imagine, with my non technical head, that it would, however.

[SmallSoldier]

Is it possible that these cut outs create an edge that create another small trailing vortex that helps keep the floor sealed?

That’s the intention... You sacrifice a bit of floor area to create a vortex at the tip of the floor to better manage tire squirt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Makes sense to do that, I don't think it would be too hard to implement either, it will be interesting to see if anything like that appears on the car in the near future or if it doesn't offer enough of a benefit. I'd imagine, with my non technical head, that it would, however.

It depends... As usual, the aero surfaces work as a whole, while some teams may be needing that vortex to seal the floor, if it isn’t an issue for Mclaren and there is probably no benefit for it (there are no signs of rear instability so far)... Mclaren’s concept may not require such a solution.

Most solutions in F1 bring a compromise, generally drag... If the benefit of the solution doesn’t outweight the penalty, then it won’t be implemented... An example of this is the S-Duct, if I’m not mistaken the only team not using one is Mclaren, the lack of one for several seasons now indicates that for the team, the benefit doesn’t compensates for the added drag that it creates.


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[Stu]

Is it possible that these cut outs create an edge that create another small trailing vortex that helps keep the floor sealed?

That’s the intention... You sacrifice a bit of floor area to create a vortex at the tip of the floor to better manage tire squirt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Makes sense to do that, I don't think it would be too hard to implement either, it will be interesting to see if anything like that appears on the car in the near future or if it doesn't offer enough of a benefit. I'd imagine, with my non technical head, that it would, however.

It would be interesting to see a CFD comparison of the difference. The other teams (with the ‘Z-cut’ floor all appear to be trying to manage tyre squirt by ‘attracting’ the flow outboard of the rear tyres with the little vanes at the rear of the floor edge. Are McLaren taking a different path and using a vortex inboard of the tyre to seal the diffuser? This would be an effective solution (from both a drag and downforce perspective) very similar to the effect created during the ‘exhaust-sealed diffuser’ era. It would explain how they have minimised the lap-time losses from 2020 as compared to ALL of the other teams.

[mwillems]

That’s the intention... You sacrifice a bit of floor area to create a vortex at the tip of the floor to better manage tire squirt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Makes sense to do that, I don't think it would be too hard to implement either, it will be interesting to see if anything like that appears on the car in the near future or if it doesn't offer enough of a benefit. I'd imagine, with my non technical head, that it would, however.

It depends... As usual, the aero surfaces work as a whole, while some teams may be needing that vortex to seal the floor, if it isn’t an issue for Mclaren and there is probably no benefit for it (there are no signs of rear instability so far)... Mclaren’s concept may not require such a solution.

Most solutions in F1 bring a compromise, generally drag... If the benefit of the solution doesn’t outweight the penalty, then it won’t be implemented... An example of this is the S-Duct, if I’m not mistaken the only team not using one is Mclaren, the lack of one for several seasons now indicates that for the team, the benefit doesn’t compensates for the added drag that it creates.


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Mercedes are often mid table in speed traps so it feels like that drag to downforce compromise is an effective one. Any dowforce from the floor would be more effective than the brute force rear wing anyway, so it could offer benefits in the straight and corners. But like we both agree, it would have to offer the right benefit.

If it interacted with the rear tyre then I guess it could disturb airflow at the rear. It'll be interesting to see what turns up.

I notice that the diffuser is yet to be copied too.

[PlatinumZealot]

The McLaren does have the vortex. It wil be there without the flicks just the same.

What McLaren could be doing to get a tight vortex is have a special barge board design..

Or maybe they don't need a tight vortex at all..

Its not black or white nor 2 dimensional. They have a full 3D analysis of the flow structures under the floor and have achieved the stable flow structures that work with thier floor.

[SiLo]

I think the teams moving to this cutout generates a slightly stronger vortex, but it's probably easier to manage it along a completely horizontal path down the car (a straight line) than what McLaren have which is a slight angle.

There might be a tendency for the vortex to start at the edge of the floor and then as it moves down the car it gets separated as more and more floor moves through it.

I don't know if I've explained it right, I might have to draw a diagram.

[diffuser]

Drum roll is starting in Portugal ....

[mwillems]

The McLaren does have the vortex. It wil be there without the flicks just the same.

What McLaren could be doing to get a tight vortex is have a special barge board design..

Or maybe they don't need a tight vortex at all..

Its not black or white nor 2 dimensional. They have a full 3D analysis of the flow structures under the floor and have achieved the stable flow structures that work with thier floor.

This is true, perhaps the floor is perfectly well enough sealed and it does not offer the right benefit for Mclaren. It's an interesting take though, none the less, it will be interesting to see how many teams alter their approach to the floor, and who does not.

[PlatinumZealot]

There is a nice video clip of when Perez engine blew in Bahrain 2020. The smoke running down the back of the side pod curled under the floor.

It was clurling pretty hard even at low speed. You can see it not only curled through the slots but also beyond them, beyond the edge of the floor demonstrating that even without slots or vanes it will happen due to pressure difference. F1 floors before 2010 had no such slots and vanes as you now. So McLaren likely went back to the tried and true methods of getting a good vortex working at the edge there.

Another key point: As i learned through a discussion here, then googling some papers online, the vortex is not just a seal, it works to sweep energy from high potential zones into zones were more kinetic energy is needed. So to add to my prior assumption, perhaps McLaren has designed their floor so that the flows unnderneath are more maximized (not turbulating? , not stagnating? ) thus not needing as much energy addition.

Watch at 18 seconds in.

[_cerber1]

By @AlessandroSala1

[f1rules]

What the --- are these so called jornalists doing all thursday, i have never experienced so bad coverage and pictures as from thursday at the last 3gps. Nothing. No scruteneering pics or anything. Are they prohibited to take pics or entering the pitwalk or what on earth is going on.
Edit
Especially, as i think someone mentioned, they need bring all the test items to scuteneering now, for they can test themmon friday, so any new developments should be visible

[CjC]

What the --- are these so called jornalists doing all thursday, i have never experienced so bad coverage and pictures as from thursday at the last 3gps. Nothing. No scruteneering pics or anything. Are they prohibited to take pics or entering the pitwalk or what on earth is going on.
Edit
Especially, as i think someone mentioned, they need bring all the test items to scuteneering now, for they can test themmon friday, so any new developments should be visible

Agreed, there are far less pics than usual.

It could be Covid restricting ‘free access’ and the photographers who are there are in the teams clothing and have been since the beginning of last season. You would imagine they are well embedded in the team by now and I doubt the team will allow the photographer to share their intricate new secrets on the car

[_cerber1]

By @f1debrief