2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[PhillipM]

But the steering system had an exemption for that. For obvious reasons

[shamyakovic]

But DAS was also modifying the setup of the car when the driver wanted to do it. The system was legal because was mechanical actioned, but that is also a grey area because you are (in theory) breaking parc ferme modifying the setup

It doesnt break Parcferma
its the same a turning the steering wheel in the car, that doesnt brake the parc ferme rule

[Marti_EF3]

What I was trying to say, a loophole in the rules. The same here

[e30ernest]

What I was trying to say, a loophole in the rules. The same here

It's not. DAS was legal from the get go because there were no rules that cover it.

I'll probably get a lot of hate when I say this, I see the flexi-wings as more akin to the Ferrari engine issue in 2019. The engine at the time passed the tests (scrutineering) but it was actually circumventing the rules. The bending wings (my last mention of that here in this thread, sorry mods) are like that. They pass the test, but they go against the rules.

[carisi2k]

Obviously some people on here haven't seen Mercedes flexing front wings or the flexing shark fin which give Mercedes more of a straightline benefit by stalling the rear wing at high speeds. If the FIA are going to increase the tests for the rear wing they should also increase the test for these other areas that Merecedes are trying to exploit as well.

[e30ernest]

Obviously some people on here haven't seen Mercedes flexing front wings or the flexing shark fin which give Mercedes more of a straightline benefit by stalling the rear wing at high speeds. If the FIA are going to increase the tests for the rear wing they should also increase the test for these other areas that Merecedes are trying to exploit as well.

I agree. But lets be fair, all teams have flexing front wings. The basic design of the wing makes the flaps susceptible to compression. RB's front wing flexes almost as much too.

Now the sharkfin/T-Wing combo, if the floppiness of them adds an advantage, then yes they should also be checked. I find it odd no team is protesting that yet though. Maybe it has no effect.

[Juzh]

Now the sharkfin/T-Wing combo, if the floppiness of them adds an advantage, then yes they should also be checked. I find it odd no team is protesting that yet though. Maybe it has no effect.

At the very least it has an effect of reduced weight up top due to less than required strengthening of entire structure to prevent it from jumping all over the place.

[etusch]

Obviously some people on here haven't seen Mercedes flexing front wings or the flexing shark fin which give Mercedes more of a straightline benefit by stalling the rear wing at high speeds. If the FIA are going to increase the tests for the rear wing they should also increase the test for these other areas that Merecedes are trying to exploit as well.

I agree. But lets be fair, all teams have flexing front wings. The basic design of the wing makes the flaps susceptible to compression. RB's front wing flexes almost as much too.

Now the sharkfin/T-Wing combo, if the floppiness of them adds an advantage, then yes they should also be checked. I find it odd no team is protesting that yet though. Maybe it has no effect.

If Redbull use a flexing wing why they just make it at rear? Of course they will push everywhere they can gain with this approach. Isn't this what everyone do to find performance?
I believe merc has more illegal things than other teams. I don't believe their one word. This is just my believe and has meaning only for me.
But it is obvious for everyone that merc also do what other teams do and just accuse rbr because their rear wing not flexing as much as Redbull's wing.

[Xray]

What I was trying to say, a loophole in the rules. The same here

It's not. DAS was legal from the get go because there were no rules that cover it.

I'll probably get a lot of hate when I say this, I see the flexi-wings as more akin to the Ferrari engine issue in 2019. The engine at the time passed the tests (scrutineering) but it was actually circumventing the rules. The bending wings (my last mention of that here in this thread, sorry mods) are like that. They pass the test, but they go against the rules.

Lousy comparison. Ferrari got more out of their engine not by circumventing the rule but by fooling the control system and breaking the rules. That's fraud. Red Bull isn't fooling the control system, they comply to the rules but found a way to create flex anyway, that's engineering.

[Datco]

Obviously some people on here haven't seen Mercedes flexing front wings or the flexing shark fin which give Mercedes more of a straightline benefit by stalling the rear wing at high speeds. If the FIA are going to increase the tests for the rear wing they should also increase the test for these other areas that Merecedes are trying to exploit as well.

I agree. But lets be fair, all teams have flexing front wings. The basic design of the wing makes the flaps susceptible to compression. RB's front wing flexes almost as much too.

Now the sharkfin/T-Wing combo, if the floppiness of them adds an advantage, then yes they should also be checked. I find it odd no team is protesting that yet though. Maybe it has no effect.

Your front wing comment lost you alot of credibility for the rest of your post.
Just because everybody has it does not make it legal. Are you saying that if everybody figured out how to make the rear wing flex you also would not support changes. The fact is there are tests for both front and rear. Cars pass the test but still flex on track. The question is why are the Fia only picking on the rear wing?

[Datco]

What I was trying to say, a loophole in the rules. The same here

It's not. DAS was legal from the get go because there were no rules that cover it.

But it's still broke the spirit of the rules of not being able to alter suspension geometry after, the same as what the Fia are saying about rear wing on RBR. Rear wing is legal and passes tests. They are just saying it breaks the spirit of rules. So why didn't they ban DAS in season?

[e30ernest]

Obviously some people on here haven't seen Mercedes flexing front wings or the flexing shark fin which give Mercedes more of a straightline benefit by stalling the rear wing at high speeds. If the FIA are going to increase the tests for the rear wing they should also increase the test for these other areas that Merecedes are trying to exploit as well.

I agree. But lets be fair, all teams have flexing front wings. The basic design of the wing makes the flaps susceptible to compression. RB's front wing flexes almost as much too.

Now the sharkfin/T-Wing combo, if the floppiness of them adds an advantage, then yes they should also be checked. I find it odd no team is protesting that yet though. Maybe it has no effect.

Your front wing comment lost you alot of credibility for the rest of your post.
Just because everybody has it does not make it legal. Are you saying that if everybody figured out how to make the rear wing flex you also would not support changes. The fact is there are tests for both front and rear. Cars pass the test but still flex on track. The question is why are the Fia only picking on the rear wing?

I didn't say it was right. I said it was difficult for them not to flex because of how they are designed. The flaps only main attachment point is the endplate. There's a reason why the cars for 2022 have the flaps attached both to the endplate and the nose cone.

[ME4ME]

In my opinion Mercedes are just putting pressure on the FIA to bring forward the adjusted load test.
I don't think Mercedes is or can target Red Bull specifically.

"No movable aero surfaces" is just a path that the FIA and FOM have chosen for Formula One as a racing series for now.
But of course, no items are infinitely rigid.

The definition of sufficiently rigid, or legally immovable is defined by the FIA load test.
If Red Bull, Ferrari or any other teams pass the load test, their car is legal.

Mercedes cannot claim for their wing to be immovable. It's not infinitely rigid, it cannot be. So again, the goalpost is the FIA load test.

Apart from advancing the tougher tests which will cripple Red Bulls performance, I think Mercedes are also out to put Red Bull in a difficult financial position. Spending millions on a new wing will substract from next years performance.

[Jambier]

Apart from advancing the tougher tests which will cripple Red Bulls performance, I think Mercedes are also out to put Red Bull in a difficult financial position. Spending millions on a new wing will substract from next years performance.

Indeed, Vasseur said this is a madness for a small team like Alpha if they have to produce new ones.
So it will :

- Slow RB a bit
- Make them use lot of money
- Hence impact 2021 development for the championship battle

[SiLo]

Apart from advancing the tougher tests which will cripple Red Bulls performance, I think Mercedes are also out to put Red Bull in a difficult financial position. Spending millions on a new wing will substract from next years performance.

Indeed, Vasseur said this is a madness for a small team like Alpha if they have to produce new ones.
So it will :

- Slow RB a bit
- Make them use lot of money
- Hence impact 2021 development for the championship battle

This is it really, it's just another tactic to put Red Bull under pressure.