2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[Jolle]

And, at this track you need quite some extra laptime/grip/life to overtake. WIth almost all battles that sometimes took laps on end, when the overtake was done, a gap was made easily done after that.

My family and I were driving to our summer vacation spot during the race yesterday so I had to listen to the race versus watch it. Whatever commentary the app uses radio 5 live or something like that, said the time Delta had to be 2+ seconds to overtake, according to some teams engineers.

Good chance if Hamilton was leading at the end of lap 3, he would have lapped the whole field...

[bluechris]

Alonso is also under investigation
https://new.reddit.com/r/formuladank/co ... stigation/

[Jolle]

Alonso is also under investigation
https://new.reddit.com/r/formuladank/co ... stigation/

Good luck for the 80kg fixed drivers weight now. no wonder that McLaren was so slow...

[Kingshark]

Also, Max is a horrible wheel to wheel racer. All he's ever done is, bully the other guy -whether it be defending, or attacking-, which is a far cry from a good racer, and fair racing. This mentality has always been instilled, and also endorsed to the max (no pun intended ) by his current team. It was only a matter of time before someone said, "no, I'm not backing off", and it came back to bite him in the ass.

Verstappen wins the majority of his duels because he's more talented than the drivers that he is racing. His positioning of his car, his confidence on the brakes even when entering corners at very sharp angles, and his ability to find grip around the outside makes him an absolute menace at wheel to wheel racing. Despite being unbelievably good and very aggressive, he is also a very fair driver, which is why he has almost no penalties or penalty points since the beginning of 2019.

Prior to this one of course, Hamilton had managed him plenty of times. The top 3 that spring to my mind are Suzuka '16, and this year Catalunya and Imola.

Hamilton didn't manage anything in Imola. He tried to go around the outside but simply got squeezed out. How is that managing anything?

[Kingshark]

And, at this track you need quite some extra laptime/grip/life to overtake. WIth almost all battles that sometimes took laps on end, when the overtake was done, a gap was made easily done after that.

My family and I were driving to our summer vacation spot during the race yesterday so I had to listen to the race versus watch it. Whatever commentary the app uses radio 5 live or something like that, said the time Delta had to be 2+ seconds to overtake, according to some teams engineers.

According to AWS, Alonso should have made the move on lap 55. I also doubt that the overtaking delta was anywhere near the 3 seconds Hamilton had over Alonso.

[Manoah2u]

Also, an entire different discussion could be this:

Lewis OBVIOUSLY was heavily fatigued after the race and was in a bad situation. There's no denying that. I even feared for a moment that he was going to faint right there on the podium, he was definately not doing well. In other races, at the end of the race especially, or in other moments, you could hear - the TV commentators also mentioned this more than once - that Hamilton was breathing more difficult and clearly far, far more fatigued than usual.

If this indeed is due to his Covid contraption last year, then let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

And that automatically, and most certainly means, that the cold hard truth is that Max is 'beating' - and now losing - to a handicapped, fatigued driver.
A young gun on top of his game in the fullest of his health only manages to come close - and still lose to a 'old' driver that is suffering from perhaps lung problems.
Yes, he is obviously fit to race, so good enough. But the fact would remain then still: Lewis might just barely be fit enough to race, whereas Max is in super health.

This would make an unfair fight and really, would mean Max results are laughable, and Hamilton actually is far, far more impressive to be able to beat Max despite this handicap,
and as such, this would mean RBR isn't really that close to Merc -atleast Lewis' Merc - : they're closer to a handicapped driver.

[nzjrs]

let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

And that automatically, and most certainly means, that the cold hard truth is that Max is 'beating' - and now losing - to a handicapped, fatigued driver.

New talking point just dropped! Where's PZ?

[Manoah2u]

let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

And that automatically, and most certainly means, that the cold hard truth is that Max is 'beating' - and now losing - to a handicapped, fatigued driver.

New talking point just dropped! Where's PZ?

this is going to go ugly fast, thank god there's no downvoting or upvoting in the race threads

[Kingshark]

If this indeed is due to his Covid contraption last year, then let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

Looking at his performance gap to Bottas this season compared to previous seasons, the handicap is negligible.

[NathanOlder]

let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

And that automatically, and most certainly means, that the cold hard truth is that Max is 'beating' - and now losing - to a handicapped, fatigued driver.

New talking point just dropped! Where's PZ?

this is going to go ugly fast, thank god there's no downvoting or upvoting in the race threads

I'm not so sure. If there were voting, maybe people wouldn't talk complete nonsense at times?

[Kingshark]

New talking point just dropped! Where's PZ?

this is going to go ugly fast, thank god there's no downvoting or upvoting in the race threads

I'm not so sure. If there were voting, maybe people wouldn't talk complete nonsense at times?

Imaginary internet points isn’t going to stop an angry person from speaking their mind.

[Jolle]

Also, an entire different discussion could be this:

Lewis OBVIOUSLY was heavily fatigued after the race and was in a bad situation. There's no denying that. I even feared for a moment that he was going to faint right there on the podium, he was definately not doing well. In other races, at the end of the race especially, or in other moments, you could hear - the TV commentators also mentioned this more than once - that Hamilton was breathing more difficult and clearly far, far more fatigued than usual.

If this indeed is due to his Covid contraption last year, then let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

And that automatically, and most certainly means, that the cold hard truth is that Max is 'beating' - and now losing - to a handicapped, fatigued driver.
A young gun on top of his game in the fullest of his health only manages to come close - and still lose to a 'old' driver that is suffering from perhaps lung problems.
Yes, he is obviously fit to race, so good enough. But the fact would remain then still: Lewis might just barely be fit enough to race, whereas Max is in super health.

This would make an unfair fight and really, would mean Max results are laughable, and Hamilton actually is far, far more impressive to be able to beat Max despite this handicap,
and as such, this would mean RBR isn't really that close to Merc -atleast Lewis' Merc - : they're closer to a handicapped driver.

Maybe. But dunno. I’m experiencing now quite a lot of top performance loss after my covid last year, but still a fairly decent overall fitness (I dropped to 175 from 250 watts on a bike for half an hour), but most what happens almost every time is a sharp drop of blood pressure and heart rate directly after a workout (and get a bit woozy and slightly unstable), plus I need to drink twice as much as I used to. It’s a very very strange virus.

[Shrieker]

Hamilton didn't manage anything in Imola. He tried to go around the outside but simply got squeezed out. How is that managing anything?

So you agree with Suzuka and Catalunya. At least that's progress.

he is also a very fair driver, which is why he has almost no penalties or penalty points since the beginning of 2019.

Or, he's been overlooked by stewards all this time. Everyone and their dog knows he's well beyond fair in wheel to wheel racing. If others hadn't been avoiding him like the plague and compensating for his squeezes, he would've been involved in a lot more shenanigans.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Maybe one could argue if he gets that exhausted to the point of almost fainting, really laboured breathing in the cockpit, should he be on a race track?

Imagine him fainting with his foot flat to the floor and piling it into another car or barrier. I don’t wish anything bad to happen to anyone but for me that is a huge concern here.

I’m pretty sure in other sports and definitely in my profession, I would not be allowed anywhere near the machinery I fly. That’s the responsibility of the license holder which comes pretty close to responsibilities of holding a super licence in F1.

Always easy to say, coulda woulda shoulda after a mishap. But I am concerned and he should be too. It’s not normal

[ringo]

To be fair to Max I don’t think those sort of considerations were seen in Hamilton’s driving when he was 23.

Hamilton did not have 7 years of F1 experience at 23. When he had 7 years of experience he had 22 wins and would have been playing percentage games after learning from teaming up with Jenson.
Max has the luxury of youth with experience on his side.