2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[Kingshark]

He did not have many opportunities.

He did.

3 seconds a lap faster was not the case.

13 seconds in 5 laps despite wasting time overtaking and then defending from Sainz, looks very close to 3 seconds per lap to me.

But we can see that even after the last corner with DRS Hamilton was not close enough to even outbrake Alonso into turn 1. That pretty much shows that Alonso's car was competitive enough to keep any car behind on the day and we saw the same with Ocon's Alpine. It somehow has really good traction out of the turns to go far enough to not be prey to DRS attacks.

Mark Webber once said that Alonso is the only driver he has ever raced against, who actively changed his lines when defending in order to give the driver behind the maximum effect of dirty air. Also, when did we see the same from Ocon? We never did. Vettel was driving an Aston Martin which is miles slower than the Mercedes. That is such a bizarre argument.

Hamilton is not the kind of driver to waste time overtaking.

There’s no driver who deliberately wastes time trying to overtake, but some drivers are simply more efficient at overtaking than others.

On the current grid, the two best racers are Alonso and Verstappen by some margin. I don’t think anyone else comes close.

[Mchamilton]

He did not have many opportunities.
3 seconds a lap faster was not the case. Maybe compared to the leaders.
But we can see that even after the last corner with DRS Hamilton was not close enough to even outbrake Alonso into turn 1.
That pretty much shows that Alonso's car was competitive enough to keep any car behind on the day and we saw the same with Ocon's Alpine. It somehow has really good traction out of the turns to go far enough to not be prey to DRS attacks.
Hamilton is not the kind of driver to waste time overtaking. So this one was not easy. He took risks feeling out the possibilities of going around Alonso and Alonso did his best to block Lewis from taking the outside. Nothing illegal of course, it just slowed down both their laptimes but at that stage it doesnt matter. Alonso had no interest in catching sainz so was able to stay and fight and kill his own race to kill Lewis' and save Ocon's.

Lewis passed Alonso with 5 laps to go, and at the end he was 13 seconds ahead so maybe not 3 full seconds, but pretty close. He lost some time passing Sainz too so if it was just 2 seconds (less than a lap behind Carlos) then it would be exactly 3 full seconds per lap faster

Of course Hamilton is not the kind of driver to waste time overtaking, that´s what gives even more credit to Alonso. Holding him back for 11 laps was just unbelieveble

Alonso masterclass

100% an defensive driving masterclass by Alonso, you dont see battles like that between Lewis and many other drivers, takes a driver of equal calibre to crrate a battle like that.

[Mchamilton]

[Manoah2u]

This championship is ruined. If Lewis wins, the question will always be asked what if Merc drivers did not take out Max two races in a row. Not only from a points perspective but also PU penalties and costs that would have an effect of development. Will always be a hollow victory for merc.

pretty shortsighted and empty comment.

remember that Max had a DNF in Baku after tire failure. It's an interesting discussion, but if we need to believe FIA and/or Pirelli, then this happened because of incorrect tire pressure usage, which would make it RedBull's own mistake.
Either way, let's claim that it was to no fault of Max at all.

Max makes zero points. He could have had big points, but he lost them all.

Then we get a restart.

What happens? the unthinkable, really. Hamilton goes straight off, finishes last. Zero points.
Due to a clumsy mistake - there have been some interesting discussions there too.
But let's face the truth here:

Despite all the empty, baseless stories that Lewis always gets lucky, this is a full example of how Max got lucky.
First he got unlucky, then he got lucky.

After all, the truth of the matter is, if nothing went wrong there, Hamilton would have had P1.
Worse, Perez - who grabbed the win - was on the edge of having a DNF due to hydraulic problems, and this means RedBull in the constructors standings would have had 25 points less.
There is sufficient ground to concider that if the Red Flag had not occurred - but instead, for example, we would have had a safety car situation and a quick safety car restart (let's concider Max' car could have been salvaged by the marshalls quick and easy), then Hamilton would have won the GP and Perez would have had a dnf.

Then Hamilton would have had a 25 point further lead, and RBR 25 points less in the WCC standings, and as such, Mercedes 25 points more.

Yes, it's always a case of IF's and IF's, but from all things, this really is how that race reasonably would have finished.

So Max got very very lucky that from all moments and opportunities, with just 1 lap to go, Lewis made such an enormeous error and lost the win.

And as for DNF's and PU issues, i'll also very much like to remind people from the incident between Bottas and Russell.
Who knows how that race would have ended up - including points - had Bottas not been taken out, and how much will that destroyed Mercedes have cost the team and will result in a grid penalty due to engine replacement?

I'd also very much like to remind people that Max is not a saint - the opposite really. Max has also punted Lewis this season even, during race start first few corners pushing him off making contact, and he has recieved ZERO penalty.

people really need to calm down and don't make a fuzz or turn a 'mosquito into an elephant' as some sayings go.

The REAL truth of it all actually is this:

If RedBull had done more effort, or a better job so to speak. If Max had done a better job during Q3, then Max, instead of starting P3, would have had pole position, and he would NOT have been punted out by Bottas.
Instead then, Max would have easily drove off P1, and let's concider he -unlike Hamilton- would have went inside and changed tires. He would have completely DOMINATED the race.
It would mean that Hamilton, being P2, would have been taken out by his own teammate, and Mercedes would have had zero points.

Fact of the matter remains: RedBull did not deliver in Hungary as Mercedes did, and RedBull didn't read the race and used adaptive tactics like they did with Hamilton.

This honestly means, as harsh as it sounds, that this result is greatly due to RedBull's own incompetence, paired to simple and true risk of racing.
Alonso didn't ask to get taken out by Grosjean in Spa, 2012.

Alonso finished 3 points behind Vettel in 2012. Had Grosjean NOT taken out Alonso in 2012, it's VERY LIKELY, that Alonso would have finished in the top 6, and he would have been, guaranteed, a WDC in 2012 - and as such, broken RedBull's and Vettel's dominance.

Instead, this is racing, and that's how things go. Had Gachot not had a altercation with a taxi driver in 1991, Schumacher would not have debuted in Jordan in 1991 and the season would have been different.
Had Schumacher not broken his legs years ago, the results for that season would have been different.

It doesn't ruin a championship, it just happens as it goes.
Don't make more of it than it is.

The same for the still continued nonsense about the Silverstone crash of Max. It happened, that's it.
Sh%$ happens, that's racing, end of story.

[Restomaniac]

Remove the Mercedes tinted glasses and see the impact to the drivers and teams. Grosjean was given a race ban for a similar reckles drive. Thanksfully, there was no free internet and forums in 80s and 90s for people to preach, which was a good relief.

The problem with this forum is people like yourself who are only capable of a binary interpretation of other users post: either pro or against whoever they support.

If you removed your whatever tinted glasses you could perhaps analyze the post objectively and you could see there is some value to it.

[-o<

Changing topic, but was anyone surprised that Sainz didn't just cruise up to Vettel and Ocon when he had clear air in front of him? I was sure he would just pull Hamilton along right up to the back of them, but he just ran out of steam after a few laps or so.

His tyres we just that much older.

[Just_a_fan]

You're making statements about me that aren't true. Not sure why you feel the need to join a discussion with a personal dig but that seems to the way for this forum these days.

Alonso did a brilliant job. I remember saying so during the race itself.

Backmarkers are a part of racing. Arguably the reason to why Hamilton was able to get so close to Alonso in the first place was because of the dirty air from the Raikkonen through sector 3.

Honestly, using Raikkonen as an excuse to why Hamilton did not overtake right away just comes across as poor.

Kimi was coming out of the pits. He wasn't a factor in sector 3 before the attempt that is being discussed because he was in the pits.

Perhaps you should check what you're discussing before coming in to the discussion and then insulting people.

[Just_a_fan]

Not sure if anyone noticed, but Lewis was first, and then no one overtook him but he was sitting last, then he did not overtake anyone but got to be ahead again, and then we was last again and then he got first agaii...lmost.

What, you mean he overtook lots of people? Surely not!

[dans79]

Lewis passed Alonso with 5 laps to go, and at the end he was 13 seconds ahead so maybe not 3 full seconds, but pretty close. He lost some time passing Sainz too so if it was just 2 seconds (less than a lap behind Carlos) then it would be exactly 3 full seconds per lap faster

Where are you getting your numbers from, the official document shows 12.282 seconds.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

[Jolle]

Lewis passed Alonso with 5 laps to go, and at the end he was 13 seconds ahead so maybe not 3 full seconds, but pretty close. He lost some time passing Sainz too so if it was just 2 seconds (less than a lap behind Carlos) then it would be exactly 3 full seconds per lap faster

Where are you getting your numbers from, the official document shows 12.282 seconds.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

Uhm... accounting to that report you shared, he was 12.9 seconds in front of Alonso at the line

[dans79]

Lewis passed Alonso with 5 laps to go, and at the end he was 13 seconds ahead so maybe not 3 full seconds, but pretty close. He lost some time passing Sainz too so if it was just 2 seconds (less than a lap behind Carlos) then it would be exactly 3 full seconds per lap faster

Where are you getting your numbers from, the official document shows 12.282 seconds.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

Uhm... accounting to that report you shared, he was 12.9 seconds in front of Alonso at the line

Forgot to do the math, but that's still not 15 seconds. Not to mention it probably doesn't account for the fact that both Sainz and Alonzo backed off.

[Ringleheim]

He did not have many opportunities.
3 seconds a lap faster was not the case. Maybe compared to the leaders.
But we can see that even after the last corner with DRS Hamilton was not close enough to even outbrake Alonso into turn 1.
That pretty much shows that Alonso's car was competitive enough to keep any car behind on the day and we saw the same with Ocon's Alpine. It somehow has really good traction out of the turns to go far enough to not be prey to DRS attacks.
Hamilton is not the kind of driver to waste time overtaking. So this one was not easy. He took risks feeling out the possibilities of going around Alonso and Alonso did his best to block Lewis from taking the outside. Nothing illegal of course, it just slowed down both their laptimes but at that stage it doesnt matter. Alonso had no interest in catching sainz so was able to stay and fight and kill his own race to kill Lewis' and save Ocon's.

Lewis passed Alonso with 5 laps to go, and at the end he was 13 seconds ahead so maybe not 3 full seconds, but pretty close. He lost some time passing Sainz too so if it was just 2 seconds (less than a lap behind Carlos) then it would be exactly 3 full seconds per lap faster

Of course Hamilton is not the kind of driver to waste time overtaking, that´s what gives even more credit to Alonso. Holding him back for 11 laps was just unbelieveble

Alonso masterclass

100% an defensive driving masterclass by Alonso, you dont see battles like that between Lewis and many other drivers, takes a driver of equal calibre to crrate a battle like that.

Alonso's defense of that position is, easily, my favorite part of this entire F1 season so far.

I was disappointed to see Freddy ultimately make a mistake and lose the position in that manner, but he still did a great job for many laps in an inferior car.

It was funny to listen to Hamiltons cry baby whining on the radio, complaining that Alonso was too far outside in the corners, etc...

He's defending--HARD--his position Lewis!

This generation of drivers is way too soft.

[Jolle]

Where are you getting your numbers from, the official document shows 12.282 seconds.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

Uhm... accounting to that report you shared, he was 12.9 seconds in front of Alonso at the line

Forgot to do the math, but that's still not 15 seconds. Not to mention it probably doesn't account for the fact that both Sainz and Alonzo backed off.

Plus it's all about dynamics. Good chance Hamilton kept his tires in better shape attacking then Alonso (and Sainz) did in defending. Plus, as we've seen with Vettel, fuel saving might also been a factor.

And, at this track you need quite some extra laptime/grip/life to overtake. WIth almost all battles that sometimes took laps on end, when the overtake was done, a gap was made easily done after that.

[Shrieker]

On the current grid, the two best racers are Alonso and Verstappen by some margin. I don’t think anyone else comes close.

Funny that that 'list' doesn't mention Hamilton, even in passing

Also, Max is a horrible wheel to wheel racer. All he's ever done is, bully the other guy -whether it be defending, or attacking-, which is a far cry from a good racer, and fair racing. This mentality has always been instilled, and also endorsed to the max (no pun intended ) by his current team. It was only a matter of time before someone said, "no, I'm not backing off", and it came back to bite him in the ass.

Prior to this one of course, Hamilton had managed him plenty of times. The top 3 that spring to my mind are Suzuka '16, and this year Catalunya and Imola.

[Mchamilton]

Lewis passed Alonso with 5 laps to go, and at the end he was 13 seconds ahead so maybe not 3 full seconds, but pretty close. He lost some time passing Sainz too so if it was just 2 seconds (less than a lap behind Carlos) then it would be exactly 3 full seconds per lap faster

Of course Hamilton is not the kind of driver to waste time overtaking, that´s what gives even more credit to Alonso. Holding him back for 11 laps was just unbelieveble

Alonso masterclass

100% an defensive driving masterclass by Alonso, you dont see battles like that between Lewis and many other drivers, takes a driver of equal calibre to crrate a battle like that.

Alonso's defense of that position is, easily, my favorite part of this entire F1 season so far.

I was disappointed to see Freddy ultimately make a mistake and lose the position in that manner, but he still did a great job for many laps in an inferior car.

It was funny to listen to Hamiltons cry baby whining on the radio, complaining that Alonso was too far outside in the corners, etc...

He's defending--HARD--his position Lewis!

This generation of drivers is way too soft.

The only time i head lewis complain is when Alonso moved further over to the right before turn 4, lewis had to put 2 wheels on the outside kerb. All fair really, but in the moment id imagine quite tense for Lewis. Im sure youd complain the same in that situation.

[dans79]

And, at this track you need quite some extra laptime/grip/life to overtake. WIth almost all battles that sometimes took laps on end, when the overtake was done, a gap was made easily done after that.

My family and I were driving to our summer vacation spot during the race yesterday so I had to listen to the race versus watch it. Whatever commentary the app uses radio 5 live or something like that, said the time Delta had to be 2+ seconds to overtake, according to some teams engineers.