2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[LaplacesDemon]

Maybe one could argue if he gets that exhausted to the point of almost fainting, really laboured breathing in the cockpit, should he be on a race track?

Imagine him fainting with his foot flat to the floor and piling it into another car or barrier. I don’t wish anything bad to happen to anyone but for me that is a huge concern here.

I’m pretty sure in other sports and definitely in my profession, I would not be allowed anywhere near the machinery I fly. That’s the responsibility of the license holder which comes pretty close to responsibilities of holding a super licence in F1.

Always easy to say, coulda woulda shoulda after a mishap. But I am concerned and he should be too. It’s not normal

Not what we want to see but it is a valid point.
However I have heard nothing but speculation regarding his condition so maybe we are jumping to conclusions.

[Kingshark]

So you agree with Suzuka and Catalunya. At least that's progress.

Suzuka 2016 is completely irrelevant since I have never tried to defend Verstappen’s driving back then.

Spain was a perfectly legitimate move. He braked later than Hamilton, he hit the apex, and he was ahead on corner exit. Nothing wrong with that, a typical late braking manoeuvre that we see all the time in F1.

Or, he's been overlooked by stewards all this time. Everyone and their dog knows he's well beyond fair in wheel to wheel racing. If others hadn't been avoiding him like the plague and compensating for his squeezes, he would've been involved in a lot more shenanigans.

This truly is the lamest excuse in the book. Leclerc at Silverstone 2019 raced Verstappen harder than anyone has raced Hamilton in years (until Alonso yesterday).

2019-present Verstappen almost never gets penalties or penalty points because he is a supremely clean, hard and fair racer. No amount of hate from your side will change that.

On the current grid, Alonso and Verstappen are truly a level above anyone else at racing wheel to wheel.

[ringo]

Also, an entire different discussion could be this:

Lewis OBVIOUSLY was heavily fatigued after the race and was in a bad situation. There's no denying that. I even feared for a moment that he was going to faint right there on the podium, he was definately not doing well. In other races, at the end of the race especially, or in other moments, you could hear - the TV commentators also mentioned this more than once - that Hamilton was breathing more difficult and clearly far, far more fatigued than usual.

If this indeed is due to his Covid contraption last year, then let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

And that automatically, and most certainly means, that the cold hard truth is that Max is 'beating' - and now losing - to a handicapped, fatigued driver.
A young gun on top of his game in the fullest of his health only manages to come close - and still lose to a 'old' driver that is suffering from perhaps lung problems.
Yes, he is obviously fit to race, so good enough. But the fact would remain then still: Lewis might just barely be fit enough to race, whereas Max is in super health.

This would make an unfair fight and really, would mean Max results are laughable, and Hamilton actually is far, far more impressive to be able to beat Max despite this handicap,
and as such, this would mean RBR isn't really that close to Merc -atleast Lewis' Merc - : they're closer to a handicapped driver.

Hahaha.
Old boy Uncle Lew is in a gun fight with a plastic fork.

I mentioned this in the team thread. It is the truth. Max is quite luckier than we think. As for the Alonso 3 second per lap faster Hamilton... Why are the people pushing this theory not look at the laps before hamilton approached Alonso?
I think it makes sense Kingshark and friends let us know what the lap times were for lewis and Alonso when Hamilton was approaching and not after he overtook. After the fact is not accurate enough.

[ringo]

Maybe one could argue if he gets that exhausted to the point of almost fainting, really laboured breathing in the cockpit, should he be on a race track?

Imagine him fainting with his foot flat to the floor and piling it into another car or barrier. I don’t wish anything bad to happen to anyone but for me that is a huge concern here.

I’m pretty sure in other sports and definitely in my profession, I would not be allowed anywhere near the machinery I fly. That’s the responsibility of the license holder which comes pretty close to responsibilities of holding a super licence in F1.

Always easy to say, coulda woulda shoulda after a mishap. But I am concerned and he should be too. It’s not normal

If he can get an 8th championship with this disadvantage he can continue. His team just need to give him oxygen before and after the race. if possible modify the drink bottle to have a second bottle of pressure regulated oxygen in the car.

But I understand if the only way to beat Hamilton is not make him drive the races anymore. It's just not likely to happen.

[nzjrs]

If he can get an 8th championship with this disadvantage he can continue. His team just need to give him oxygen before and after the race. if possible modify the drink bottle to have a second bottle of pressure regulated oxygen in the car.

But I understand if the only way to beat Hamilton is not make him drive the races anymore. It's just not likely to happen.

I haven't taken the bait until now, but you've said this a few times, so..... Are you taking the piss here mate?

[101FlyingDutchman]

Maybe one could argue if he gets that exhausted to the point of almost fainting, really laboured breathing in the cockpit, should he be on a race track?

Imagine him fainting with his foot flat to the floor and piling it into another car or barrier. I don’t wish anything bad to happen to anyone but for me that is a huge concern here.

I’m pretty sure in other sports and definitely in my profession, I would not be allowed anywhere near the machinery I fly. That’s the responsibility of the license holder which comes pretty close to responsibilities of holding a super licence in F1.

Always easy to say, coulda woulda shoulda after a mishap. But I am concerned and he should be too. It’s not normal

If he can get an 8th championship with this disadvantage he can continue. His team just need to give him oxygen before and after the race. if possible modify the drink bottle to have a second bottle of pressure regulated oxygen in the car.

But I understand if the only way to beat Hamilton is not make him drive the races anymore. It's just not likely to happen.

You are the biggest fanboy together with PZ on this forum. You really are unable to take another viewpoint into account. My comment was squarely aimed at keeping him and others safe. It doesn’t come from “fanboydom” to try and get him out of the championship. As it happens I’m rooting for McLaren but it’s got nothing to do with anything. He clearly looked extremely unwell, and hasn’t sounded good on the radio quite a few times now. It’s concern for his welfare and for those that share the track/Marshalls and fans.

[Kingshark]

I think it makes sense Kingshark and friends let us know what the lap times were for lewis and Alonso when Hamilton was approaching and not after he overtook. After the fact is not accurate enough.

On the end of lap 48, Lewis Hamilton was 15.8 seconds behind Fernando Alonso. By the middle sector of lap 54, he was within a second.

That is a gain of 15 seconds within approximately five and a half laps, or 2.73 seconds per lap.

After Hamilton overtook Alonso, he pulled 13 seconds in 5 laps. That is 2.60 seconds per lap. This is despite Hamilton wasting time overtaking and then defending from Sainz.

How on earth it took Hamilton 11 laps to overtake Alonso, I will never know, but Alonso does know:

“Hamilton was at least 2.5s faster, he just kept making the same mistakes and I took advantage of it" - Alonso on Spanish TV after the race.

[dans79]

If this indeed is due to his Covid contraption last year, then let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

Looking at his performance gap to Bottas this season compared to previous seasons, the handicap is negligible.

Any kind of handicap related to your respiratory system would be track and wether dependent.

[dans79]

“Hamilton was at least 2.5s faster, he just kept making the same mistakes and I took advantage of it" - Alonso on Spanish TV after the race.

If you really believe that, then you don't know anything about Alonso!

[Kingshark]

“Hamilton was at least 2.5s faster, he just kept making the same mistakes and I took advantage of it" - Alonso on Spanish TV after the race.

If you really believe that, then you don't know anything about Alonso!

Question the guy who translated his Spanish post-race interview on Reddit.

Alonso commented that Hamilton kept making mistakes in the final sector.

[214270]

100% an defensive driving masterclass by Alonso, you dont see battles like that between Lewis and many other drivers, takes a driver of equal calibre to crrate a battle like that.

Alonso's defense of that position is, easily, my favorite part of this entire F1 season so far.

I was disappointed to see Freddy ultimately make a mistake and lose the position in that manner, but he still did a great job for many laps in an inferior car.

It was funny to listen to Hamiltons cry baby whining on the radio, complaining that Alonso was too far outside in the corners, etc...

He's defending--HARD--his position Lewis!

This generation of drivers is way too soft.

The only time i head lewis complain is when Alonso moved further over to the right before turn 4, lewis had to put 2 wheels on the outside kerb. All fair really, but in the moment id imagine quite tense for Lewis. Im sure youd complain the same in that situation.

Yup, I think HAM just believes the contact unnecessary is all; he’s in the running for a championship, makes sense if you think about it.

[dans79]

“Hamilton was at least 2.5s faster, he just kept making the same mistakes and I took advantage of it" - Alonso on Spanish TV after the race.

If you really believe that, then you don't know anything about Alonso!

Question the guy who translated his Spanish post-race interview on Reddit.

Alonso commented that Hamilton kept making mistakes in the final sector.

That's not what I'm talking about. I don't think Alonso has missed a single opportunity to promote himself ever.

[ispano6]

Wow, just wow. Ham is getting good at the front left to rear right tactic isn't he.

[ispano6]

Also, an entire different discussion could be this:

Lewis OBVIOUSLY was heavily fatigued after the race and was in a bad situation. There's no denying that. I even feared for a moment that he was going to faint right there on the podium, he was definately not doing well. In other races, at the end of the race especially, or in other moments, you could hear - the TV commentators also mentioned this more than once - that Hamilton was breathing more difficult and clearly far, far more fatigued than usual.

If this indeed is due to his Covid contraption last year, then let's face the truth here: Lewis is driving 2021 with a handicap.
If that really is the case, then just how much of a handicap is there?

And that automatically, and most certainly means, that the cold hard truth is that Max is 'beating' - and now losing - to a handicapped, fatigued driver.
A young gun on top of his game in the fullest of his health only manages to come close - and still lose to a 'old' driver that is suffering from perhaps lung problems.
Yes, he is obviously fit to race, so good enough. But the fact would remain then still: Lewis might just barely be fit enough to race, whereas Max is in super health.

This would make an unfair fight and really, would mean Max results are laughable, and Hamilton actually is far, far more impressive to be able to beat Max despite this handicap,
and as such, this would mean RBR isn't really that close to Merc -atleast Lewis' Merc - : they're closer to a handicapped driver.

Maybe Lewis should take a break then, an unfit driver is putting other drivers, including himself at risk. What if he passes out during a high speed corner and crashes into a marshals post? What if his fatigue makes him have judgment errors. Seems he wants sympathy or special considerations. Other drivers have had covid too.

[langedweil]

The level of bias is truly insane these days in the race threads ..