2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[Wouter]

Who said this? Please provide some quotes.

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The form has a search box, use it!

Normally you always immediately come up with links of articles without being asked
and now it is asked nicely and then this person has to look for it himself.
You are a very friendly and helpful person Sir Dans!

[LM10]

Off-topic, but as I don’t know if I’m allowed to start a thread for this, I’m asking here, if someone might be interested in two Gold 1 weekend tickets for Spa (start-finish-line). If yes, PM me.

[Just_a_fan]

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One can turn around his statement:

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Lewis is as good as they've been claiming he is.
Thus they feel the need to attack Max to justify their stance on Lewis.

This is what I see here all the time.

... Max fans attacking Lewis, Lewis fans defending him and vice versa. ...

The funny thing here is can we turn this statement around like 'Lewis fans attacking Max, Max fans defending him and vice versa'.

Who is defending and who is attacking, it depends of many factors

The new Discovery Channel show about "Alonso being a tactical altruist hero" is what I respect the most in this thread. I wonder how many episodes of the show we will have this season. Anyway it is admirable even Ocon is a believer, why don't we.

So the bit about "vice versa" passed you by then?

Really, my post was about as neutral as it was possible to be and you still found a made up thing to argue. That's great. But perhaps it's time to read and understand rather than skim and react.

[Just_a_fan]

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.

There’s some serious deflection going on here. After Bahrain, many were convinced that Hamilton’s superior maturity would win him the title. That is why, when Hamilton is the one making the major mistakes, a million excuses need to be made instead of just accepting that Lewis is a flawed driver (which does not mean bad).

For years we've heard if he had a car that was even a few tenths slower he would run away with the championship or some other nonsense. Now that he a car that's there or there abouts, he's not running away with it.

Who said this? Please provide some quotes.

As much as people like to complain about Lewis's luck and Max's bad luck, Max has also made several strategic mistakes this season. He's had several issues with track limits, and his typical issue of being overly aggressive when he shouldn't.

Max is not the one who drove into a wall by himself, nor is he the one who switched his own brakes off and lost the easiest 25 points imaginable. The biggest mistakes this season have been made by Hamilton. The fact that Lewis fans keep harping on about Max’s alleged “mistake” at Silverstone as some kind of counter-argument is only further proof of that. If Max actually made serious mistakes this year, you wouldn’t feel the need to bring up an incident where Lewis was majority to blame by verdict of the stewards.

All good stuff. And your point?

What is it that you're trying to prove?

Is it that Hamilton is no good?

Because here's the thing: if Hamilton is no good - the guy that has the most wins, the most poles, and the equal top number of titles - then what you're really saying is that the titles are worthless. The records are worthless. Anyone that breaks the records is worthless.

It's all pointless. Anyone that breaks those records is no better than the man that set the records.

If the records are easy - just need a decent car - then anyone with a decent car can take the records. Ergo, the records are worth no more than the car / team.

If that's the case, and the hypothesis is valid, then Max is no better than Lewis. Just as any other driver is better than any other driver.

[GOAT]

It's all pointless. Anyone that breaks those records is no better than the man that set the records.

If the records are easy - just need a decent car - then anyone with a decent car can take the records. Ergo, the records are worth no more than the car / team.

If that's the case, and the hypothesis is valid, then Max is no better than Lewis. Just as any other driver is better than any other driver.

If you’re saying Lewis had a ‘decent’ car past 7 years, then you’re only disqualifying yourself.

Having said that, what’ the problem?

When Schumacher was driving, he finally met Alonso.

Alonso met Hamilton.

Hamilton met Vettel.

Vettel met Hamilton.

.. and Hamilton met Verstappen.

Accept it- get over it.

[Kingshark]

All good stuff. And your point?

What is it that you're trying to prove?

Is it that Hamilton is no good?

I never said that Hamilton is not good did I?

Hamilton is a great driver, however, I believe that:

1. Max has driven better this season (an opinion that is supported by every magazine that does driver ratings)

2. Max is more talented (difficult to prove and more subjective as they drive different cars)

I still consider Hamilton better than 95% of the grid. The reason why I am being attacked left and right on this forum is because that number is not 100%.

[dans79]

Normally you always immediately come up with links of articles without being asked
and now it is asked nicely and then this person has to look for it himself.

I just finished a 1000 km drive, and I have another 500 km to do tomorrow. So yes, this time people are going to have to search for it themselves.

[dans79]

I still consider Hamilton better than 95% of the grid. The reason why I am being attacked left and right on this forum is because that number is not 100%.

You're not being attacked, your opinion is being questioned/tested.

Very few people would be left if moderators allowed people to attack each other.

[NathanOlder]

All good stuff. And your point?

What is it that you're trying to prove?

Is it that Hamilton is no good?

I never said that Hamilton is not good did I?

Hamilton is a great driver, however, I believe that:

1. Max has driven better this season (an opinion that is supported by every magazine that does driver ratings)

2. Max is more talented (difficult to prove and more subjective as they drive different cars)

I still consider Hamilton better than 95% of the grid. The reason why I am being attacked left and right on this forum is because that number is not 100%.

Well at least you agree Lewis is better than Alonso, Leclerc, Vettel, Sainz, Norris, Russell, Ricciardo and Perez.

[DownShift Ninja]

Good day all.

To all the Lewis Hamilton fans out there of which I am one please keep in mind that he is not infallible. He just like any other driver in history and currently on the grid has weaknesses. If someone says they don't like LH44 and don't think he is talented. All you need to remember is that someone said that about every driver that has won multiple world championships. Also look at what the person is asying if they are identifying a genuine fault of LH44 don't try to excuse it away. If its not a true fault ignore it.

[ringo]

Max is the GOAT. 7 years no titles. Just 15 wins, mediocre teammates who were basically rookies. Lost twice to his best teammate; who is being whooped by Norris. Drives a traction and braking monster in the RB cars so looks are deceiving. Gets outqualified by Perez before who isn't great at qualifying and when he gets the setup right has same race pace as Max.
But despite thes facts. He is better than all.
We need to accept these facts and move on. Stop giving trouble Hamilton fans!

By the way.. Vettel's team should have told him to back off to save fuel. It would have meant the sainz and or lewis would have passed him. But the team would have got a good result.
I would like t know what the protest will yeild. I am feeling its just to show they tried but its likely Vettel will be keep his DQ.

[DownShift Ninja]

Ringo. Rudwboy you bringing a billion tons a tnt to an already active volcano.

[Ryar]

Max is the GOAT. 7 years no titles. Just 15 wins, mediocre teammates who were basically rookies. Lost twice to his best teammate; who is being whooped by Norris. Drives a traction and braking monster in the RB cars so looks are deceiving. Gets outqualified by Perez before who isn't great at qualifying and when he gets the setup right has same race pace as Max.
But despite thes facts. He is better than all.
We need to accept these facts and move on. Stop giving trouble Hamilton fans!

By the way.. Vettel's team should have told him to back off to save fuel. It would have meant the sainz and or lewis would have passed him. But the team would have got a good result.
I would like t know what the protest will yeild. I am feeling its just to show they tried but its likely Vettel will be keep his DQ.

6 world titles with 2 seconds a lap faster car for 7 seasons now. No wonder people say, "It's the car".

[langedweil]

One of the key things that makes people a champion, is knowing when to take risks and when to not.

What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..

IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.

[DownShift Ninja]

What so funny about this debate about LH44 not being as good or as talented about other drivers, is what happened in the Grill The Grid competition. 50 yrs from now if all those other drivers who are considered better than LH44 win less titles than him, then motorsports fans of the future will just say LH44 is the GOAT. Just the way they said it about Fangio till Schumacher passed his title count. So if LH44 wins 8 titles or more , history will record him as the GOAT until some one passes that.
When ppl are talking about Fangio there is hardly a mention of his bad races if any, they did the same for Schumacher not, will do the same for Hamilton. So all who want to continuously talk about the bad races Hamilton has had needs to ensure that the driver who they are a fan of has more titles than LH44. Since they may not be treated as kindly in the future as we now treat Sir Sterling Moss.