If RBR wins this years championship it will be because they had better car.Bill wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 09:36if Rbr win these championship it will be because of the genious of Max and Honda Newey not so sure .that car in the hands of mere mortal it is midfield .perez has scored less points than Yuki in the last four races thats how bad he is .Gasly in the AT is far more convincing
It's clearly been the better car so far this year and I assume will remain so for the second half of the season. Mercedes will likely have a chance to win the WCC because Bottas is performing at a much higher level than Perez, and they COULD nick the WDC because it's regularly 2v1 at the front.F1NAC wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 09:38If RBR wins this years championship it will be because they had better car. Jesus stop being so delusional. If the car is not among the best it won't win the race, doesn't matter who is driving.Bill wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 09:36if Rbr win these championship it will be because of the genious of Max and Honda Newey not so sure .that car in the hands of mere mortal it is midfield .perez has scored less points than Yuki in the last four races thats how bad he is .Gasly in the AT is far more convincing
Agree. When the cars are very equal, the driver might have the final edge. But only when they are 5-seconds-per-race-ish close. I also think Max is the best at the moment, but not seconds faster than Lewis. Have you seen Lewis in 2007 when he almost became a rookie champ next to Alonso?F1NAC wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 09:38If RBR wins this years championship it will be because they had better car. Jesus stop being so delusional. If the car is not among the best it won't win the race, doesn't matter who is driving.Bill wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 09:36if Rbr win these championship it will be because of the genious of Max and Honda Newey not so sure .that car in the hands of mere mortal it is midfield .perez has scored less points than Yuki in the last four races thats how bad he is .Gasly in the AT is far more convincing
Yes, he threw it away. If you watch the description on how Alo won in 2006 you will find that McLaren was very concerned about the fact that he needs to adapt hugely to their car. We have seen a massively compromised Alo in this year. McLaren had the fastest car BY FAR and just threw it away together with their drivers. No idea, why this should be positive for anyone involved...Bandit1216 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 10:00Agree. When the cars are very equal, the driver might have the final edge. But only when they are 5-seconds-per-race-ish close. I also think Max is the best at the moment, but not seconds faster than Lewis. Have you seen Lewis in 2007 when he almost became a rookie champ next to Alonso?F1NAC wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 09:38If RBR wins this years championship it will be because they had better car. Jesus stop being so delusional. If the car is not among the best it won't win the race, doesn't matter who is driving.Bill wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 09:36if Rbr win these championship it will be because of the genious of Max and Honda Newey not so sure .that car in the hands of mere mortal it is midfield .perez has scored less points than Yuki in the last four races thats how bad he is .Gasly in the AT is far more convincing
Brawn absolutely had the better car in the first part of the season. RB really found some speed part way through and became a regular challenger.basti313 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 10:53Yes, he threw it away. If you watch the description on how Alo won in 2006 you will find that McLaren was very concerned about the fact that he needs to adapt hugely to their car. We have seen a massively compromised Alo in this year. McLaren had the fastest car BY FAR and just threw it away together with their drivers. No idea, why this should be positive for anyone involved...Bandit1216 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 10:00Agree. When the cars are very equal, the driver might have the final edge. But only when they are 5-seconds-per-race-ish close. I also think Max is the best at the moment, but not seconds faster than Lewis. Have you seen Lewis in 2007 when he almost became a rookie champ next to Alonso?
It is the very same with RedBull in 2009. They did not lose to Brawn because Brawn had the better car. They lost because Vet had 5 races without any point and mostly because of their own faults.
Did you ever look at the WDC standings at the end and how often RB scored 0 points?SiLo wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 11:28Brawn absolutely had the better car in the first part of the season. RB really found some speed part way through and became a regular challenger.basti313 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 10:53Yes, he threw it away. If you watch the description on how Alo won in 2006 you will find that McLaren was very concerned about the fact that he needs to adapt hugely to their car. We have seen a massively compromised Alo in this year. McLaren had the fastest car BY FAR and just threw it away together with their drivers. No idea, why this should be positive for anyone involved...Bandit1216 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 10:00
Agree. When the cars are very equal, the driver might have the final edge. But only when they are 5-seconds-per-race-ish close. I also think Max is the best at the moment, but not seconds faster than Lewis. Have you seen Lewis in 2007 when he almost became a rookie champ next to Alonso?
It is the very same with RedBull in 2009. They did not lose to Brawn because Brawn had the better car. They lost because Vet had 5 races without any point and mostly because of their own faults.
At the start of the season, the Brawn was the best car. They had figured out the front wing endplates and the effect of outwash supporting the rear end of the car. Even Red Bull, with Newey, started the season with very basic front wing endplates. The double diffuser wasn't the huge thing that the teams made of it at the time - Brawn himself even said at the time that the other teams were looking at the wrong end of the car.basti313 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 15:04Did you ever look at the WDC standings at the end and how often RB scored 0 points?SiLo wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 11:28Brawn absolutely had the better car in the first part of the season. RB really found some speed part way through and became a regular challenger.basti313 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 10:53
Yes, he threw it away. If you watch the description on how Alo won in 2006 you will find that McLaren was very concerned about the fact that he needs to adapt hugely to their car. We have seen a massively compromised Alo in this year. McLaren had the fastest car BY FAR and just threw it away together with their drivers. No idea, why this should be positive for anyone involved...
It is the very same with RedBull in 2009. They did not lose to Brawn because Brawn had the better car. They lost because Vet had 5 races without any point and mostly because of their own faults.
They genuinely lost it, to a small part on reliability and on a big part by strategy and drivers.
My point was that Brawn had the better car in the first part of the season, which was not wrong. I did not say anything about the second half of the season or even just after the 7th/8th race. I agree with your sentiment mostly, just that initially, the best car was definitely the Brawn.basti313 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 15:04Did you ever look at the WDC standings at the end and how often RB scored 0 points?SiLo wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 11:28Brawn absolutely had the better car in the first part of the season. RB really found some speed part way through and became a regular challenger.basti313 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 10:53
Yes, he threw it away. If you watch the description on how Alo won in 2006 you will find that McLaren was very concerned about the fact that he needs to adapt hugely to their car. We have seen a massively compromised Alo in this year. McLaren had the fastest car BY FAR and just threw it away together with their drivers. No idea, why this should be positive for anyone involved...
It is the very same with RedBull in 2009. They did not lose to Brawn because Brawn had the better car. They lost because Vet had 5 races without any point and mostly because of their own faults.
They genuinely lost it, to a small part on reliability and on a big part by strategy and drivers.
I think it is remarkably similar to how Merc is not performing at 100% in stategy and driving this season. The two cars are super close. Maybe the closest we ever had. While with the fight in 2009 the RB team was completely unexperienced, unexperienced fast driver, slow Nr2 the Brawn team was much more on the edge in strategy and driving. Today the Brawn team has a slow Nr2, a Nr1 driver who goes into Q as if he would drive against Rosberg and a strategy team that is surprised that they are not 1sec faster than the rest of the grid.
On the other hand the VER team is performing at maximum. If he would not have driven into the gravel in Stone or hit Lando in Hungary (I do not want to trigger another ying yang on this) imagine how far ahead he would be with a car where you can discuss over 100 pages which one is on average 0.1sec faster. Also quite similar to the stunt Button pulled in 2009 when he collected every point he could get.
The same for the Nr 2.: Per had good drives, but he does not play any role in the championship. Monaco was the only time he took points from Hamilton (2?). Bar in 2009 also just took 2 points from VET.
In summary: To me it looks like we have a real fight between equal cars. Until today I think VER and his team is doing a better job and will win this if it goes on like this. And this is not because of the car, but because Merc lost it.
Absolutely. I was taking the average. Like for example RB took a 1-2 in China also early. On average the cars were equal, but while Button only had some start issues that I can not pinpoint at the moment, RB lost a lot of points with crashes and errors through the year....in my point of view easily the 10 points that cost them the WDC. Just take the 5 points for the crash in Monaco and the speeding in the pitlane in Spore and you are there...SiLo wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 16:08My point was that Brawn had the better car in the first part of the season, which was not wrong. I did not say anything about the second half of the season or even just after the 7th/8th race. I agree with your sentiment mostly, just that initially, the best car was definitely the Brawn.basti313 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2021, 15:04Did you ever look at the WDC standings at the end and how often RB scored 0 points?
They genuinely lost it, to a small part on reliability and on a big part by strategy and drivers.
I think it is remarkably similar to how Merc is not performing at 100% in stategy and driving this season. The two cars are super close. Maybe the closest we ever had. While with the fight in 2009 the RB team was completely unexperienced, unexperienced fast driver, slow Nr2 the Brawn team was much more on the edge in strategy and driving. Today the Brawn team has a slow Nr2, a Nr1 driver who goes into Q as if he would drive against Rosberg and a strategy team that is surprised that they are not 1sec faster than the rest of the grid.
On the other hand the VER team is performing at maximum. If he would not have driven into the gravel in Stone or hit Lando in Hungary (I do not want to trigger another ying yang on this) imagine how far ahead he would be with a car where you can discuss over 100 pages which one is on average 0.1sec faster. Also quite similar to the stunt Button pulled in 2009 when he collected every point he could get.
The same for the Nr 2.: Per had good drives, but he does not play any role in the championship. Monaco was the only time he took points from Hamilton (2?). Bar in 2009 also just took 2 points from VET.
In summary: To me it looks like we have a real fight between equal cars. Until today I think VER and his team is doing a better job and will win this if it goes on like this. And this is not because of the car, but because Merc lost it.
Yes. Honda are still manufacturing the engines in 2022. The support of Honda is very important to the Red Bull engine program. Without the support of Honda, there is no way Red Bull can create their engine program -- at least not in this form, not in time for the 2022 season or even 2023 season.ringo wrote: ↑05 Sep 2021, 22:56Will there be backing even when Honda engine will now be a Redbull engine?ispano6 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2021, 18:46Perez has a fair number of years of experience over Gasly who is also in his 4th year of F1 compared to Yuki in his first year who is also the youngest current F1 driver. Driver line up is set for next year, though Albon probably should be in Alpha Tauri if for points reasons. Seem AT is still meant to develop future RedBull drivers, and Yuki does have Honda backing going for him.