[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[gandharva]

It's really funny how everyone thinks it's just the aero to blame. Yes that car has some balance issues but the engine inferiority is much, much worse.
They did a huge gamble in voting against oil and fuel trickery, because they thought it would also affect Merc. But it only --- Ferrari and to a lesser extend Honda and also Renault, because everyone thought that all the engine guys are using the same tricks. Now we see how wrong they have been. Merc had a lead start into 2014 and their lead is even bigger now. Without a significant rule change nothing will change. Nothing! It does not matter at all if RBR is behind a second or "just" 0.5. With this regulations they will always be behind, because there is no playroom left in aero regulations these days to make up such a huge difference in power and FIA seems to have no intend to change this.

[XRayF1]

Where is Mr. Marko in all this?
I mean it is evident that Merc did a better job than RBR in every aspect, and there seems to be no reasonable response from anyone higher up in RB's hierarchy than 'we have to look into it'.

Well what can he do? It's not his job to fix it. It's the job of Mr. Fallows, chief aerodynamicist, Mr. Newey, chief designer, and Mr. Wache, technical director (mainly suspension & tyres).

Red Bull places their faith in the long-standing brains trust of Newey, Fallows, Wache to fix the technical issues!

If they need an "all-new" brains trust, that is not the work of a moment...

Correct.
He is nothing of all that.
But he gave and usually gives statements as if.
Which makes me wonder where the hell he is.

And yes, the three gentlemen you mentioned are also lying low.
Heck, even Horner is not giving any meaningful interviews ...

RBR is rather uncharacteristically quiet considering that the season will be a short one.

[Sayeman]

It's really funny how everyone thinks it's just the aero to blame. Yes that car has some balance issues but the engine inferiority is much, much worse.
They did a huge gamble in voting against oil and fuel trickery, because they thought it would also affect Merc. But it only --- Ferrari and to a lesser extend Honda and also Renault, because everyone thought that all the engine guys are using the same tricks. Now we see how wrong they have been. Merc had a lead start into 2014 and their lead is even bigger now. Without a significant rule change nothing will change. Nothing! It does not matter at all if RBR is behind a second or "just" 0.5. With this regulations they will always be behind, because there is no playroom left in aero regulations tese days to make up such a huge difference in power.

And what makes you think the PU is "much much" worse than Mercedes?
Blaming the PU is just taking the easy way out. Just like Mclaren found out in 2018 that their chassis was draggy as hell, which was making them look faster in corners during the Honda days. Looking the handling of the Redbull iam not at all convinced that the PU is the major reason for this misery.

[gandharva]

If you think it's not the PU, you are closing your eyes to reality. In Austria, one of the shortest tracks in season, they lost around 0.4 on straights alone. Wake up!

[McMika98]

Yeah right, the only car that belches smoke before quali run are the Merc powered cars. They must have found a loophole, the car handling isnt all that in high temp and yet in quali all merc cars are much quicker.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/formularap ... gines/amp/

Dare I say Merc are cheating which is probably why Andy Cowell left.

Expect some noise in the next few races.
The Honda has been a bit of a strange one, even with the new spec they cant keep up with the Renault.

Albon was faster in his Toro Rosso last year than Gasly this year, so the Honda gains aren't much. His medium run had few errors and easily could have been few tenths quicker. His soft run was poor, lost it all in sector 2.

[Sieper]

I don’t think the Merc power is correct. A Williams on P3 Begin second stint Q2 in Hungary. No way that that’s right.

[TNTHead]

It's really funny how everyone thinks it's just the aero to blame. Yes that car has some balance issues but the engine inferiority is much, much worse.
They did a huge gamble in voting against oil and fuel trickery, because they thought it would also affect Merc. But it only --- Ferrari and to a lesser extend Honda and also Renault, because everyone thought that all the engine guys are using the same tricks. Now we see how wrong they have been. Merc had a lead start into 2014 and their lead is even bigger now. Without a significant rule change nothing will change. Nothing! It does not matter at all if RBR is behind a second or "just" 0.5. With this regulations they will always be behind, because there is no playroom left in aero regulations these days to make up such a huge difference in power and FIA seems to have no intend to change this.

I don't think the Honda is inferior, its the utter dominant Mercedes power (especially Q mode) that makes the difference. With that power they can afford to run a low rake design, add hundreds of serrations to fine tune the aero, create a stable handling car.
I still wonder why for about 4 years in a row the Merc car is full of serrations, with much more detail than the RB. Is this down to aero design philosophy, budget or lack of power? May be a combination.

Going on like this with one team winning the WCC and WDC for years in a row is bad for F1. Or are we heading to a spec serie with one engine supplier and three or four chassis builders? Then it will Indycar Europe. I dont know, may be its better because the influence of the driver is larger and thus more spectacle.

As for Max, to further grow he would benefit from a experienced driver, now he himself is his benchmark. May be they need a driver who can give additional valuable feedback on the car.
Although I like Albon he is at the same struggle as Gasly.

[gandharva]

I don't think the Honda is inferior, its the utter dominant Mercedes power (especially Q mode) that makes the difference.

Person 1: It's bright over there.
Person 2: No, just dark here.

Phrase it however you want. It changes nothing.

[McMika98]

Max was 2 tenths quicker than a prime Daniel in ultimate pace and now has a car built to his style. He won't be touched by anyone in this car. Although I think Albon would have been a lot closer had he not had the crash.
I strongly suspect Merc are doing what Ferrari did last year hut instead of fuel flow they are exceas oil burning. Ferrari cheated but didn't get penalised so whats to lose. They are toying in all sessions, so they dont get caught. Also all Merc cars are packed with downforce, the Williams is the draggiest of cars based and the other two aren't that slippery, again easy to mask speed.

[bigblue]

Of the three top teams, one made an unexpectedly large jump forward, one an unexpectedly large jump backwards, and one stayed still. The one that stayed still was making very impressed comments about their engine supplier over winter. Their car has also had the drivers constantly complaining about balance and encountering spins. Therefore it's the engine's fault. QED. Yeah, right.

Alternative - Honda could have been lying all winter (do you really believe this ?).

Another observation - Mercedes have made a significant step, and so suprised everyone (including Honda, as they have admitted), so even with a great car, Red Bull might need more from the engine. But 1 sec off Mercedes, and quali laps that are no better than last year at multiple races, with an improved engine (however big or small the improvement) means there's a big defecit from the chassis.

[SmallSoldier]

It's really funny how everyone thinks it's just the aero to blame. Yes that car has some balance issues but the engine inferiority is much, much worse.
They did a huge gamble in voting against oil and fuel trickery, because they thought it would also affect Merc. But it only --- Ferrari and to a lesser extend Honda and also Renault, because everyone thought that all the engine guys are using the same tricks. Now we see how wrong they have been. Merc had a lead start into 2014 and their lead is even bigger now. Without a significant rule change nothing will change. Nothing! It does not matter at all if RBR is behind a second or "just" 0.5. With this regulations they will always be behind, because there is no playroom left in aero regulations tese days to make up such a huge difference in power.

And what makes you think the PU is "much much" worse than Mercedes?
Blaming the PU is just taking the easy way out. Just like Mclaren found out in 2018 that their chassis was draggy as hell, which was making them look faster in corners during the Honda days. Looking the handling of the Redbull iam not at all convinced that the PU is the major reason for this misery.

The drag issues for Mclaren in 2018 were totally unrelated to the cars they had in 2015-2017...

In regards to the Honda PU in terms of power against Mercedes... With such an small rear wing and therefore drag, if it would have the same amount of power, RBR would have top the speed traps... Even with a very low downforce car, they weren’t at Mercedes level in terms of top speed.


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[Hammerfist]

If the Mercedes is that much better than the other engines, then why is Williams the slowest car? Seriously, some folks need to calm down. This isn't drag racing. I would say since 2 years ago the chassis/aero are more important than the PU. They all are making an insane amount of power, probably all around 1000hp when you factor in the ERS, so if someone is off by 20-30hp it won't make that much difference. Yes, Ferrari was able to make a difference last year and was head and shoulders above everyone because they were bending the rules, trying to bypass the fuel flow sensor. Not so clever the FIA said. The Honda is a fine power unit. It may lack some regen on some tracks but it is competitive and in the right chassis it can win titles. I do believe that RB will improve as the year goes on, and they may get within half a second of Merc, because they have always done that. That car has pace in it, it just needs to be unlocked by finding the right set up. Max is probably the worse guy to help fix this because he will drive around any problems and may not notice them. They need a veteran and savy driver on that team. My 2 cents.

[Sieper]

Williams is one of the slowest cars. Yet, briefly on P3 during stint 2 Q2 Hungary. How is that possible. Ferrari is now back at the front (not the merc front, but the second front) after not being able to get into Q3. Again. WTF1.

These engines are simply to complex to police. No way everyone is on the same playing field at the moment. In fact, I think that what we don’t see and read about is actually where the real tug of war is.

[timbo]

Wtf? Albon looks he's down on power.

[Jaisonas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG85-HmOk0g
Wtf? Albon looks he's down on power.

He's not, hes messing up his corner exits on all important bits, compromising his exit speed.