2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[ALO_Power]

I'd like P6 but eh. The gap is quite big true, hopefully they will get the hang of their package and Renault P.U sooner or later. The positive is that I guess we can confidently say that they fixed (improved) the qualifying (tire temperature) woes they had in the 1st races. We saw that from Spain and we also see it in Monaco (where tire temps are of colossal importance).

[Dipesh1995]

https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/26/gea ... ualifying/

Gearbox problem for VAN cost him some lap time.

[PhillipM]

Diff adjuster maybe, they were both playing with various settings on the diff entry all the time before the hairpin, VAN especially.

[godlameroso]

Not too shabby, P7. I don't know what to say about Vandoorne though. He just isn't there, when it's critical.

Vandoorne is the development driver I guess because in the race in clean air his speed isn't too different from Alonso's.

In what universe?

This one. Look I'm not saying Vandoorne is faster than Alonso, not at all, I'm saying his pace is comparable when everything is perfect. But speed is only part of a driver's skills, adaptation to circumstances is another skill Alonso is far superior in. Unfortunately that's an intangible statistic, so it's hard to explain, or at least there's not an established metric to measure this.

Besides, you know me better than this.

[godlameroso]

good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time

Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.

[ALO_Power]

good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time

Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.

I think in Monaco aero probably come to play more in Tabac and Swimming Pool Chicane and probably also in Casino Square.

[zeph]

good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time

Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.

I think you have this backwards. In slow corners, aero is not that important, mechanical grip is. In fast corners, aero is what keeps the car on track.

[godlameroso]

good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time

Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.

I think you have this backwards. In slow corners, aero is not that important, mechanical grip is. In fast corners, aero is what keeps the car on track.

Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?

[godlameroso]

good result but big gap from pole ....about the car now its clear something is wrong on mechanical side ..there cant be the aero ..the most of the lap here aero doesnt work becauce of very slow speed ...i dont know if is on tim goss work side ... i hope they have something with renault engine 2 on canada ....something is foudamentaly wromg and that cost a lot time

Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.

I think in Monaco aero probably come to play more in Tabac and Swimming Pool Chicane and probably also in Casino Square.

Sector 2 for sure.

[DFX]

Aero matters the most in slow corners, not very fast ones which are easy flat. Granted it's not quite so black and white, but that's truth 90% of the time.

I think you have this backwards. In slow corners, aero is not that important, mechanical grip is. In fast corners, aero is what keeps the car on track.

Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?

The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.

That being said, teams will extract more time in the slow corners if they have a better mechanical setup to change direction quickly without losing stability and at the same time extracting the most out of the tires.

[godlameroso]

I think you have this backwards. In slow corners, aero is not that important, mechanical grip is. In fast corners, aero is what keeps the car on track.

Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?

The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.

If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?

[Jolle]

Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?

The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.

If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?

Under 100/120 kph aero just isn't there. If you've ever been in a aero heavy car you should know, it's almost like someone flips a switch. From having no downforce, almost veering off track at 100kph, but if you take the same corner at 130, it sticks.

For Monaco, with so many corners with a small or almost no aero load there is a second problem. You need to have your suspension as soft as possible to have grip there, but then you're compromising how the car reacts on the faster corners, with downforce on it.

With teams like Mercedes, having a more precise pull rod, they can get away to have a bit stiffer suspension.

[DFX]

Is not all grip mechanical? Ie mechanisms on the car functioning to keep the tires in contact with the road?

The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.

If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?

I think that your understanding of the situation is as good as your analogy.

"Very fast corners that are easily flat" only are easily flat because of the reliance on aero to make the car stick to it, cars that are not as good generating downforce will generally have to lift sooner consequently spending less time on throttle.

I never said that aero is not important in the slow corners, but its importance is severly reduced. So if the car is generating only 10% of the downforce that it can ultimately produce and is still losing most of its time in those corners, one can deduce that the mechanical part is not working at its best and is probably the main cause of the majority of the time lost.

The analogy like your statment leaves a lot of factors out of the table, i can still manage to eat even though i dont have money at all.

[godlameroso]

The thing is, in the slow corners of monaco aero barely makes any difference if it does at all. So the car have to rely solely on mechanical grip, without aero assistance.

If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?

I think that your understanding of the situation is as good as your analogy.

"Very fast corners that are easily flat" only are easily flat because of the reliance on aero to make the car stick to it, cars that are not as good generating downforce will generally have to lift sooner consequently spending less time on throttle.

I never said that aero is not important in the slow corners, but its importance is severly reduced. So if the car is generating only 10% of the downforce that it can ultimately produce and is still losing most of its time in those corners, one can deduce that the mechanical part is not working at its best and is probably the main cause of the majority of the time lost.

The analogy like your statment leaves a lot of factors out of the table, i can still manage to eat even though i dont have money at all.

... What mechanical aspect do you think is causing loss of time in a part of the track that emphasises aero performance?

[Jolle]

If you find you can't afford some food, is it better if you have no money or almost enough? Likewise if you can't generate meaningful aero, is it better to have none at all, or almost enough?

I think that your understanding of the situation is as good as your analogy.

"Very fast corners that are easily flat" only are easily flat because of the reliance on aero to make the car stick to it, cars that are not as good generating downforce will generally have to lift sooner consequently spending less time on throttle.

I never said that aero is not important in the slow corners, but its importance is severly reduced. So if the car is generating only 10% of the downforce that it can ultimately produce and is still losing most of its time in those corners, one can deduce that the mechanical part is not working at its best and is probably the main cause of the majority of the time lost.

The analogy like your statment leaves a lot of factors out of the table, i can still manage to eat even though i dont have money at all.

You are entitled to your opinion, which is fine, and naturally you will be defensive of it. One day you'll learn that any opinion in your mind did not originate from you, it is an amalgamation of external stimuli. Your only role in this is your brain unconsciously arranging the stimuli in a way you can understand it. Once you realize this you'll learn that people speak from their own point of view and in order to understand them you need a certain amount of flexibility in your perspective.

Enough lecturing about decency and ettiquete. What mechanical aspect do you think is causing loss of time in a part of the track that emphasises aero performance?

I’m afraid your theories about aero on slow corners is wrong. It’s just not there. Being bullish against someone who is right and in your mind not complementary towards McLaren is not nice.