2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Watto]

It rained at Silverstone last year. Sainz finished P6 and Leclerc was floundering somewhere outside of the points. It rained at Silverstone this year. Hamilton P4. Leclerc floundering somewhere outside of the points. Some are still blaming the car, the setup, the tires, Rueda, Xavi, Bozzi, Sainz, Binotto, the Hamilton fans, and the pope...

We are all blind to what we don't want to see. Do people actually think this is just about luck, cars, and setups now after 6 years of Leclerc doing the same **** every time that it rains? His good days when it rains are the exception. Please, enough of "Turkey 2020, Monaco 2022" arguments. Leclerc is someone who you simply cannot count on when it rains. Not the same league as Schumacher, Senna, Verstappen, Hamilton, Alonso in the wet.

Hamilton stayed calm, communicated well, understood the right times to switch tires, made smaller errors, and took a car to P4 which wasn't really fit for purpose, similar to Max behind him. It's difficult to put into words, but it's not a fluke or coincidence that this keeps happening to these drivers. It's part of why some drivers get picked up by the "right" teams, become champions multiple times, and others never do.

Hamilton showed his value in Silverstone and saved Vasseur from embarrassment in front of Elkann. Leclerc only raised more questions about himself. Of course he is very fast and can do great things in qualifying and the races but honestly he is starting to make mistakes again (Canada FP1 chassis write off, Miami Sprint warmup lap crash, Canada qualy, Silverstone, not very clever start in Austria, others that I don't recall). For me he's starting to blend into the background again with too many chinks showing in the armor.

Please don't quote me just to whine about my post because you like Leclerc. I am no longer arguing on here. I've said my piece.

I always though it was a bit telling in the last few years LeClerc just seemed to accept the teams calls where Sainz was the one that pushed back if he didn't like their strategy they didn't always listen but he sometimes got his way too at times at the detriment of Charles. Charles is the better driver. Lewis is far more experence again and had been in success carries more weight. I kinda feel like the best drivers have just about always pushed back on their teams if they felt something wasn't right,but accepted too calls they made

[ScuderiaLeo]

I don't agree about Leclerc being poor in the rain but hasn't he had three podiums this season? People are acting like he hasn't been in the top 10 in weeks lol I even saw some Italian media saying he should be swapped with Bearman

[Henri]

Lecler got lost in his own mistakes and radio drama while Hamilton showed what driving under pressure actually looks like.

What specific Leclerc "radio drama" are you referring to? Him beating himself up for not turning in a better Q3 lap? If he was silent and content with a poor lap, I have little doubt some would be criticizing him for that, too.

Leclerc has (for the better part of 2+ years now) demonstrated incredible consistency, race-pace, tire management, strong driving under pressure, impressive racecraft, wheel-to-wheel proficiency, etc; by nearly every measure, objective and subjective, Leclerc has been a top-2 or top-3 driver on the F1 grid over the past 18 or so months. He has a single rough weekend and people say nonsense like this.

Hamilton fans coming out of the woodwork following a single weekend of outperforming his teammate, to trash, tarnish, and badmouth his teammate, are giving themselves a bad, bad look. Can people express support for Hamilton without implicitly or explicitly trashing his teammate? Is that something Hamilton supporters are capable of?

The amount of self-awareness one must lack in order to make such a comment, after 10+ weeks of Leclerc outperforming Hamilton (rather handily), is shocking.

I mean all this with absolutely zero disrespect/shade towards Hamilton; he is a great racecar driver and I have a ton of respect for him (much more than I have for many of his fans).

How does the saying go ... ? Lewis Hamilton does not make Lewis Hamilton unlikable, but his fans sure do.

Lol Lewis still has higher peaks with this terrible car a pole and a sprint win whicj ferrari has never won .. Lewis must develop a car for ferrari to win.. no offence to leclerc oversteer gimmicks do jot win this is not karting friend

[Henri]

Ferrari need a strong rear end like McLaren not oversteer gimmicks they've been running which doesn't win.. lewis and loic will show there value for the sf26 listen to proven chanpions only not imposters

[Andi76]

Are you serious? Maybe you should get your facts straight first...

I see you've abandoned the obvious falsehood/hyperbole (at least in this post).

The only things that matter are points (Championship position) and wins (PR). Please remind us who led whom in both those categories over the relevant period? Why did you selectively exclude the data points that contradicted you?

but denying the facts is a bit embarrassing and pitiful.

I agree wholeheartedly and I'm interested to learn what you hope to constructively contribute to the Ferrari team thread with your aggresive, hyperbolic, inaccurate comments and personal attacks?

I'm just stating the facts. If you take that as a personal attack, then I can't help it. And falsehood/hypertension... Anyone can look at the numbers, you realize that, right? And the facts here are simply that Russell Hamilton won in both 2022 and 2024, and in 2024 by an extremely clear margin. Of course, you can try to sugarcoat defeats by making up things, but how do you assess whether a driver has beaten his teammate? It's the duels in qualifying, the race duels, and the world championship standings (as you correctly point out, but seem to have overlooked that Russell beat Hamilton in both 2022 and 2024). Victories play a secondary role, because what good is a victory if I am two hundred points behind my teammate and have lost all the qualifying and race duels? Have I beaten him just because I have one victory? I don't think so, especially since Russell had the same number of victories as Hamilton in 2024 and even more in 2022, namely one, while Hamilton had none.

And sorry - if you just look at the facts -

2022 Qualifying duel - Russell
Race duel - Russell
Points - Russell
Victories - Russell

2024 Qualifying duel - Russell
Race duel - Russell
Points - Russell
Victories - tie

Then it becomes very clear that Russell beat Hamilton in almost all disciplines in two of the three seasons. Even in the victories you mentioned, Russell has one more victory in the three years...

Your own words are "the only thing that matters are wins and championship points" - and I should tell you who led whom in these categories.

So again

2022 Russell 1 win Hamilton 0 - Winner Russell
Russell 275 points, Hamilton 240 Winner

So 2022 goes to Russell according to your own criteria.

2024 Wins Russell 2, Hamilton 2 tie
Points Russell 245 Hamilton 223

So 2024 also goes to Russell, based on your criteria. And that's not even taking into account the clear victories in qualifying (19-5).

So you can twist and turn it any way you want – Russell beat Hamilton in two of the three years. And very clearly in the last one. The numbers prove it. Even your OWN criteria prove it. If you continue to talk about falsehood/hyperbole, it only makes it clear that my statement of denial was exactly what it ultimately is – a statement. Not an attack.

Why am I posting this in the Ferrari team thread? Because I'm presenting facts that were dismissed with platitudes in a discussion about the balance of power and the comparability of teammates, And what just wasn't right.

[Andi76]

Hamilton is doing fine, he managed to outqualify leclerc last time out and was less than a tenth away today. even when both drivers do well people find something to criticize

That's always in the eye of the beholder. The majority disagree with you, as can be clearly seen from media reports about him, and the fact that he even starts crying at the end of the race shows that he himself probably doesn't agree with you either. 9-3 behind in qualifying, 10-1 in the race – it's a fact that Leclerc is beating him hands down. If you want to sugarcoat it, fine. But it certainly doesn't correspond to the facts. And it's certainly not what Ferrari expected of him.

Crying, really? You're 50 years old mate, I expect this drivel from a teenager.

Are you serious? You attribute numbers, bare numbers and clear comparative values from teammates, which teams themselves, the media and experts use to assess the balance of power between teammates and drivers, to a teenager and not a 50-year-old man? This statement makes it very clear who made it and where it comes from. There's no need to say anything more...

It's amazing how an adult can feel so offended by pure numbers and statistics that they insult other people as teenagers

[venkyhere]

Is this thread going to be about Hamilton v/s his team mates (past and present) for the next 3 weeks ?
Is there any scope to discuss the car ?

[CjC]

Is this thread going to be about Hamilton v/s his team mates (past and present) for the next 3 weeks ?
Is there any scope to discuss the car ?

Yea. I feel the car is fast enough to win one of the outlier circuits that are left in the second half of the season, however I feel Max Verstappen will more than likely win the GP which Ferrari could win (nothing to with the driver calibre- before we go there!)

[MattLightBlue]

Lecler got lost in his own mistakes and radio drama while Hamilton showed what driving under pressure actually looks like.

What specific Leclerc "radio drama" are you referring to? Him beating himself up for not turning in a better Q3 lap? If he was silent and content with a poor lap, I have little doubt some would be criticizing him for that, too.

Leclerc has (for the better part of 2+ years now) demonstrated incredible consistency, race-pace, tire management, strong driving under pressure, impressive racecraft, wheel-to-wheel proficiency, etc; by nearly every measure, objective and subjective, Leclerc has been a top-2 or top-3 driver on the F1 grid over the past 18 or so months. He has a single rough weekend and people say nonsense like this.

Hamilton fans coming out of the woodwork following a single weekend of outperforming his teammate, to trash, tarnish, and badmouth his teammate, are giving themselves a bad, bad look. Can people express support for Hamilton without implicitly or explicitly trashing his teammate? Is that something Hamilton supporters are capable of?

The amount of self-awareness one must lack in order to make such a comment, after 10+ weeks of Leclerc outperforming Hamilton (rather handily), is shocking.

I mean all this with absolutely zero disrespect/shade towards Hamilton; he is a great racecar driver and I have a ton of respect for him (much more than I have for many of his fans).

How does the saying go ... ? Lewis Hamilton does not make Lewis Hamilton unlikable, but his fans sure do.

Lol Lewis still has higher peaks with this terrible car a pole and a sprint win whicj ferrari has never won .. Lewis must develop a car for ferrari to win.. no offence to leclerc oversteer gimmicks do jot win this is not karting friend

How can you think a driver should develop a car? Drivers don’t even know what downforce really is and what it comes from. Look at where Red Bull got with the feedback of Max, the car is un-drivable for anyone else.

[Wynters]

I'm just stating the facts. If you take that as a personal attack, then I can't help it. And falsehood/hypertension... Anyone can look at the numbers, you realize that, right?

it may be frustrating for a Hamilton fan, but denying the facts is a bit embarrassing and pitiful…and the fact that he even starts crying at the end of the race

You'd have thought Verstappen actually winning a couple of WDCs would have brought and end to this sort of crushing insecurity. Or is it something a bit more fundamental about Hamilton?

And, yes, anyone can look at the numbers. I've not denied any factual numbers that you've posted. Russell outscored Hamilton in 2022 and again in 2024. He also scored more victories in 2022. I note that, despite being asked about it, you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge 2023. A strong argument can acknowledge that not every fact is in its favour as it can stand on its own merits without having to ignore reality. Odd that yours can't do that.

Its the here and now that counts and what the "comparison" was in relation to, not what was 10 years ago.

Remind me, how many WDCs has Hamilton won since your 'factual' implication that Hamilton has looked bad since "10 years ago"? It's such a weird hill for you to die on as it's irrelevant to the point you claim you were making, but it does neatly highlight mine.

It's the duels in qualifying, the race duels, and the world championship standings

Apparently, qualifying is now equally important as Championship standings? Another strong 'fact'. You don't mention Free practices, or who arrived at the circuit first in the morning. If Russell is ahead with those then you should definitely add them in. Scrabbling about adding chaff is always a sign of a robust argument that stands on its own merits.

Even in the victories you mentioned, Russell has one more victory in the three years...

You are absolutely correct about the victories. It's an indication of your mindset that it seems to be a 'gotcha' that my points aren't entirely partisan.

Odd that you don't acknowledge my other criteria though? Arguably, the more important one.

So you can twist and turn it any way you want – Russell beat Hamilton in two of the three years. And very clearly in the last one. The numbers prove it. Even your OWN criteria prove it. If you continue to talk about falsehood/hyperbole, it only makes it clear that my statement of denial was exactly what it ultimately is – a statement. Not an attack.

My criteria prove it...if you ignore all of my criteria that disprove it. Having to ignore and misstate things is another sign of a very strong argument.

it may be frustrating for a Hamilton fan, but denying the facts is a bit embarrassing and pitiful...and the fact that he even starts crying at the end of the race

Nothing hyperbolic or insulting...

Why am I posting this in the Ferrari team thread? Because I'm presenting facts that were dismissed with platitudes in a discussion about the balance of power and the comparability of teammates, And what just wasn't right.

If you'd simply said that "So far, Leclerc is crushing Hamilton this season which continues the trend of Hamilton losing in two of the last three seasons to Russell (particularly 2024)" then I wouldn't have taken issue with it. It's all the other hyperbolic/inaccurate stuff you felt the need to vent that was the problem and it's that stuff that you are scrabbling so desperately to defend. You doubling down only proves my point and it's exactly that sort of thing that makes these threads so toxic and pointless these days as what few valid points are raised get swamped in a sea of bile.

[Waz]

I don't agree about Leclerc being poor in the rain but hasn't he had three podiums this season? People are acting like he hasn't been in the top 10 in weeks lol I even saw some Italian media saying he should be swapped with Bearman

4 podiums. 3rd in Saudi Arabia, Spain and Austria, and 2nd in Monaco plus 3 other top 5 finishes.

Leclercs race in Silverstone was ruined before it began as soon as they fitted slicks.

I don't know how anyone is claiming this was a comparable race other than the bone head decision that Charles must have taken himself.

[Waz]

Feel like every Ferrari thread on every forum is a toxic wasteland this year.

Hamilton joining Ferrari has been one of the worst experiences for Ferrari fans.

[Henri]

What specific Leclerc "radio drama" are you referring to? Him beating himself up for not turning in a better Q3 lap? If he was silent and content with a poor lap, I have little doubt some would be criticizing him for that, too.

Leclerc has (for the better part of 2+ years now) demonstrated incredible consistency, race-pace, tire management, strong driving under pressure, impressive racecraft, wheel-to-wheel proficiency, etc; by nearly every measure, objective and subjective, Leclerc has been a top-2 or top-3 driver on the F1 grid over the past 18 or so months. He has a single rough weekend and people say nonsense like this.

Hamilton fans coming out of the woodwork following a single weekend of outperforming his teammate, to trash, tarnish, and badmouth his teammate, are giving themselves a bad, bad look. Can people express support for Hamilton without implicitly or explicitly trashing his teammate? Is that something Hamilton supporters are capable of?

The amount of self-awareness one must lack in order to make such a comment, after 10+ weeks of Leclerc outperforming Hamilton (rather handily), is shocking.

I mean all this with absolutely zero disrespect/shade towards Hamilton; he is a great racecar driver and I have a ton of respect for him (much more than I have for many of his fans).

How does the saying go ... ? Lewis Hamilton does not make Lewis Hamilton unlikable, but his fans sure do.

Lol Lewis still has higher peaks with this terrible car a pole and a sprint win whicj ferrari has never won .. Lewis must develop a car for ferrari to win.. no offence to leclerc oversteer gimmicks do jot win this is not karting friend

How can you think a driver should develop a car? Drivers don’t even know what downforce really is and what it comes from. Look at where Red Bull got with the feedback of Max, the car is un-drivable for anyone else.

Newey factor newey made damon hill mika mansell and max champions they have no titles without newey

[Henri]

Lol Lewis still has higher peaks with this terrible car a pole and a sprint win whicj ferrari has never won .. Lewis must develop a car for ferrari to win.. no offence to leclerc oversteer gimmicks do jot win this is not karting friend

How can you think a driver should develop a car? Drivers don’t even know what downforce really is and what it comes from. Look at where Red Bull got with the feedback of Max, the car is un-drivable for anyone else.

Newey factor newey made damon hill mika mansell and max champions they have no titles without newey

Plus when Lewis was at McLaren he helped develop a front wing upgrade to had 5 points of downforce in 2009

[Mosin123]

Are you serious? Maybe you should get your facts straight first...

I see you've abandoned the obvious falsehood/hyperbole (at least in this post).

The only things that matter are points (Championship position) and wins (PR). Please remind us who led whom in both those categories over the relevant period? Why did you selectively exclude the data points that contradicted you?

but denying the facts is a bit embarrassing and pitiful.

I agree wholeheartedly and I'm interested to learn what you hope to constructively contribute to the Ferrari team thread with your aggresive, hyperbolic, inaccurate comments and personal attacks?

I'm just stating the facts. If you take that as a personal attack, then I can't help it. And falsehood/hypertension... Anyone can look at the numbers, you realize that, right? And the facts here are simply that Russell Hamilton won in both 2022 and 2024, and in 2024 by an extremely clear margin. Of course, you can try to sugarcoat defeats by making up things, but how do you assess whether a driver has beaten his teammate? It's the duels in qualifying, the race duels, and the world championship standings (as you correctly point out, but seem to have overlooked that Russell beat Hamilton in both 2022 and 2024). Victories play a secondary role, because what good is a victory if I am two hundred points behind my teammate and have lost all the qualifying and race duels? Have I beaten him just because I have one victory? I don't think so, especially since Russell had the same number of victories as Hamilton in 2024 and even more in 2022, namely one, while Hamilton had none.

And sorry - if you just look at the facts -

2022 Qualifying duel - Russell
Race duel - Russell
Points - Russell
Victories - Russell

2024 Qualifying duel - Russell
Race duel - Russell
Points - Russell
Victories - tie

Then it becomes very clear that Russell beat Hamilton in almost all disciplines in two of the three seasons. Even in the victories you mentioned, Russell has one more victory in the three years...

Your own words are "the only thing that matters are wins and championship points" - and I should tell you who led whom in these categories.

So again

2022 Russell 1 win Hamilton 0 - Winner Russell
Russell 275 points, Hamilton 240 Winner

So 2022 goes to Russell according to your own criteria.

2024 Wins Russell 2, Hamilton 2 tie
Points Russell 245 Hamilton 223

So 2024 also goes to Russell, based on your criteria. And that's not even taking into account the clear victories in qualifying (19-5).

So you can twist and turn it any way you want – Russell beat Hamilton in two of the three years. And very clearly in the last one. The numbers prove it. Even your OWN criteria prove it. If you continue to talk about falsehood/hyperbole, it only makes it clear that my statement of denial was exactly what it ultimately is – a statement. Not an attack.

Why am I posting this in the Ferrari team thread? Because I'm presenting facts that were dismissed with platitudes in a discussion about the balance of power and the comparability of teammates, And what just wasn't right.

What happened to 2023?

Did we not have a f1 2023 season? im pretty sure results show up in google. or is it the 59 point gap / 5 places between them in the drivers championship not quite fitting into your narrative?.

Its ok to say, that the season after the FIA stole a title from LH he didnt show up, and his team mate beat him by 35 points. Its ok to say that the year after, LH turned up, and beat GR by 59 points, with both his driving ability and EXP helping LH to a 3rd place drivers championship finish while GR battled it out for 8th. Its ok to say, that after telling the world of his depature from Mercedes to join a direct rival, he was kept in the dark about how to extract the most performance from his car, and all Mercedes focus shifted to GR because he was the " future " as per Totos own words, but only lost by 22 points, with one of if not the best over take of the season on his team mate.

But in the end, he still left Mercedes having scored more points than GR in the 3 years he and GR was together at Mercedes for...


He is only 16 points behind CL, So performing quite well considering CL is supposed to be at / near Max's level.